Talk:Fortune (song)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move primary topic of a WP:TWODABS. Salix (talk): 14:44, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

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Fortune (Nami Tamaki song) → Fortune (song) – There's only one song "Fortune". 68.44.51.49 (talk) 13:40, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose there are two songs, one covered by its album article. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 13:58, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Highly unlikely there aren't loads more songs called "Fortune" - whether on WP or not, at least the present title identifies whose fortune it is. Rather than moving, a little care and consideration to whether this song is notable to actually have an article and whether there are any references might be a better idea. --Richhoncho (talk) 09:51, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support. The least restrictive disambiguation parenthetical should be used according to standard Wikipedia convention. If there is no other Wikipedia article on a song titled "Fortune", then it should be moved. Rreagan007 (talk) 05:42, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support. "Use only as much additional detail as necessary," per WP:NATURAL. Kauffner (talk) 10:13, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support Don't disambiguate for titles that don't exist. --BDD (talk) 20:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Fortune (Great Big Sea song) exists, WP:NCM. -- JHunterJ (talk) 02:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

  Not exactly. It's a redirect. Adding it to Fortune as you did doesn't abide by MOS:DAB. I've never heard of Nami Tamaki and I love Great Big Sea, but there's no indicate their "Fortune" was a single or can reasonably be expected to ever have a standalone article. --BDD (talk) 02:36, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

  I did add it to Fortune, true. But your "not exactly" reply to "Fortune (Great Big Sea song) exists" is wrong; Fortune (Great Big Sea song) exists (and was created by someone else), and is a valid redirect. In the absence of the Nami Tamaki song, Fortune (song) could redirect to Sea of No Cares. Since there are two songs on Wikipedia called "Fortune", the additional qualification is needed, per WP:NCM, exactly. Your claim that my addition of it to the disambiguation page doesn't abide by MOS:DAB is also wrong; see WP:DABREDIR. I've never heard of Nami Tamaki or Great Big Sea, but my ignorance of music doesn't affect the naming conventions (which don't include a restriction to stand-alone articles). -- JHunterJ (talk) 02:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

My problem with the redirect is that it gives readers little to nothing. If you already know enough to type in "Fortune (Great Big Sea song)" in a search box, maybe you learn the album it was on, though it's likely you knew that already. What you've done is fine with the vague wording of WP:NCM, but I'd think that needs to be subordinate to WP:DAB, "when a single term... refers to more than one topic covered by Wikipedia articles." The GBS song isn't a redlink, but it's not an article either. Again, if this were a single and likely to have an article at some point, I could live with this. But disambiguating against terms that are only redirects betrays guidelines like WP:NC by making it more difficult to find articles. --BDD (talk) 16:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

• Support. This is the only song named "Fortune" that has an article, and the only one that will ever have one. No need to give our readers the runaround. If necessary, the Great Big Sea song (or album) can be linked through a hat note.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support There is another song named Fortune with sufficient notability to be mentioned in a WP article and have a redirect, Fortune (Great Big Sea song). However I think the principle of WP:TWODABS applies here, and, since only one of these songs actually has an actual article (this one), it should be the one with the hatnote to the Sea of No Cares. There is no benefit or policy based reason to redirect Fortune (song) to the music subsection of the Fortune dab page instead of moving this article there and having a hatnote link to the only other song named Fortune even referenced on WP. If there are more songs named Fortune sufficiently notable to be on WP, that changes everything. --B2C 20:24, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Not that I really need to be arguing with you, but there's no such thing as "sufficient notability to be mentioned in a WP article"; see WP:NNC. The existence of a redirect for the GBS song tells us nothing about its notability. If it had previously been an article, the issue might be different. --BDD (talk) 20:50, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

• Support. Apparent primary topic of a WP:TWODABS. Why send everyone who is looking for the more notable song to a disambig page at all? A hatnote will do. bd2412 T 02:58, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.