Talk:Frédéric Passy

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Frédéric Passy/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sainsf (talk · contribs) 22:28, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Looks interesting, I will take this. Posting my comments in a week. Cheers, Sainsf (knock knock · am I there?) 22:28, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

• No dablinks or broken external links
• There are some duplinks, view them using this tool and link the terms only on the first mention

• Removed duplinks, apart from those in the lead. Unsure if they need to go, if repeated in the main text? PotentPotables (talk) 23:44, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

• No those can stay Sainsf (t · c) 05:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• Copyvio check: While there is no evident plagiarism issue, there may be some close paraphrasing with this source [1] in places. It would be good to rephrase some of the clear instances, like "enjoying the company of the local parish", "his family gravitated towards" and "He rejected the significance of class distinctions" (there are some more).

• I used the program to rephrase some of the close paraphrasing, hopefully its better now. PotentPotables (talk) 23:44, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

• It is better for sure, but there are still a handful of instances like "He rejected the significance of class distinctions", such long phrases need to be reshuffled or slightly changed (like rejected→dismissed? if that is okay to use here). These should be dealt with so that we are sure there is no more trouble. Sainsf (t · c) 05:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• I believe the example you've given has already been changed, and any remaining long instances are quotes from Passy himself or factual statements that can't be change (elected to the Association, etc.) PotentPotables (talk) 14:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

  Oh sorry, I clicked the link above which took me to the revision we started with. This is sorted. Sainsf (t · c) 15:24, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Prose and coverage

• for his work in the peace movement, he was a joint winner of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1901 "for his work in the peace movement" should probably come later in the line and not at the start for better flow

• Changed to "He was a joint winner of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1901 for his work in the European peace movement." PotentPotables (talk) 12:16, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

• after a period of illness and incapacitation I have not read the rest of the article yet to learn more about the illness but it would be good to say "a brief" or "a long" period if possible, just gives a better picture.

• Added the word "long". PotentPotables (talk) 12:16, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

More to come. Cheers, Sainsf (knock knock · am I there?) 08:28, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Continuing,

• Take his full name when you mention him the first time after lead, preferably his name at birth

• Added Frédéric in early life. PotentPotables (talk) 21:11, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

• recevuer general des finances Should this also not be in title case like the English version?

• Capitalised. PotentPotables (talk) 21:11, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

• I feel like parts of Family are irrelevant to this topic, like Both Augustin and Claude Louis created highly-profitable tanning businesses. Do we really need long descriptions of so many members, or stick just to names and a few words? Maybe using the family tree in Passy family will save space and also be more readable? (The tree better be placed at the bottom.)

• Family tree added. See point below. PotentPotables (talk) 12:24, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• I think his family (with so many notable people) should be in a section separate from his early life, which would look better combined with early career as it is not much in itself.

• Working on family stuff over the next day or so. PotentPotables (talk) 21:11, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

• Family stuff has been slimmed down to core members, and sections have been moved around slightly to look neater. PotentPotables (talk) 12:24, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

  Thanks, it looks much better. But I am curious why we need to go into details of members other than his parents in an article about him? Generally bios don't include anyone other than parents unless there is significant context for their inclusion. If it is because they were all notable personalities, we could shorten it with a line on how the Passy family had several notable figures (with maybe a "such as x" with one member mentioned?) instead of discussing them here. If the two paragraphs with family details remain as they are, the section should be renamed to include "Family" in it. Sainsf (t · c) 03:10, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• I've renamed the section "Family and Early Life". I think the inclusion of his maternal grandparents, while not notable enough to have articles in themselves, aims to show his family background as being both aristocratic and political. PotentPotables (talk) 15:52, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

• Okay, this should be fine for GA. Sainsf (t · c) 05:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• Cites like [4]:35 that are the source for consecutive lines need not be repeated after each line. Put them after just the last line. (Multiple occurrences throughout)

• Extraneous cites will be dealt with as I go through. PotentPotables (talk) 12:24, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• I've removed the examples of this that I can see, but will keep an eye out for more. PotentPotables (talk) 15:52, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

• Is the Education section not lacking in where he completed his studies and talking way more about his beliefs and work topics which would probably look better in Development of ideas?

• I have been unable to find where he trained as a lawyer, but section has been moved into Development of Ideas. PotentPotables (talk) 12:24, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• Le Courrier International Translate

• Translated. PotentPotables (talk) 12:24, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

• La Démocratie et l’instruction Translate. Plus this work isn't discussed in the text, so include some description in the caption or somewhere

• Translated and explained. PotentPotables (talk) 01:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• "an 1864 assembled from his lecture" an 1864 what? Sainsf (t · c) 03:11, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• Okay this is done Sainsf (t · c) 05:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• Introduce Charles Lemonnier

• Introduced as "French Saint-Simonian". PotentPotables (talk) 01:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• its six hundred members should be 600 per the MOS (digits for numbers above ten). Also Subscription rates for its six hundred members; Thirteen different nations were present

• Numbers changed as per MOS. PotentPotables (talk) 01:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• In Funding and elsewhere, where you have old money numbers, it is good to include there modern day value if possible

• This may have escaped your notice but it is not a mandatory point, just a suggestion. Sainsf (t · c) 05:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• Noticed, but decided not to do for now. PotentPotables (talk) 14:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

• Translate Pour la paix: Notes et documents, La Paix et I'enseignement pacifiste, La Paix par le droit.. there may be other names I might have missed

• Translations I've noticed done, will continue as I go through. PotentPotables (talk) 01:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• Despite Passy's objections, Cooper notes Who is Cooper?

• Explained who Cooper is. Unsure if title is needed? PotentPotables (talk) 01:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• No, we are good. Sainsf (t · c) 05:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• Put an inline cite for Passy continued to advocate for peace in his later years.

• Not sure what this is asking? PotentPotables (talk) 01:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

  I mean the line looks unsourced as their is no citation at the end. Sainsf (t · c) 03:14, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• Paul's photo should be adjacent to Marriage

• Moved. PotentPotables (talk) 01:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• their 20-year-old daughter Mathilde Paulian It's not immediately clear who her parents are from the earlier line. Also unclear for Another daughter, Alix

• Clarified who is who. PotentPotables (talk) 01:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• Passy's mother died in 1827 Sort of randomly placed after talking about his children and grandchildren. This probably belongs in the family part of Early life. Which convinces me Family needs a new section ideally placed at the bottom with a tree.

• I will work on this and see what looks best/makes the most sense. PotentPotables (talk) 01:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

• I've moved this sentence to the family section at the top, but will consider a separate family section. I've moved the family tree to the "Marriage and issue" section for now instead of "Ancestry", as its not a Ahnentafel like most ancestry sections I've seen are. PotentPotables (talk) 15:52, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

• I think Views and then Legacy should immediately follow Illness and death. At least Views appears too late in the article I think

• Moved "Views" section. Legacy seems okay where it is now with Views moved. PotentPotables (talk) 15:52, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

• Translate the foreign language titles in Selected works and References

• Will work on this next. Should be fun... PotentPotables (talk) 15:52, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

• I've replaced both lists with tables to make it easier to read, and translated the titles into English. Not sure if the citation column is needed with most of them having identifier codes, but I shall try have a look into it. PotentPotables (talk) 14:03, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

• Wow, this looks great and much easier to read! I don't think you need citations, the books themselves should be the sources and you even provide identifiers. One thing you need to do, italicize the foreign titles in the Articles table. It would be good to remove the citation column altogether else it will seem as if all entries needed citations but weren't supported with any. Sainsf (t · c) 05:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• I've removed the citations column from both tables. And French article titles have been italicised. PotentPotables (talk) 14:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I think that should be it. Well-written and interesting read :) Cheers, Sainsf (knock knock · am I there?) 21:26, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

@PotentPotables: Hi, I think you are busy IRL. I will keep this open one more week as work on the review comments had begun, but I am afraid this will be failed if there is no activity for another week. Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 16:20, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

• @Sainsf: Sorry about the inactivity, things have been busy in the UK the last week with things changing with the lockdown, but I'll get back on this later on today. Thanks! PotentPotables (talk) 11:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
• @Sainsf: I believe I have finished all the points, including the duplinks and close paraphrasing. Love to hear what you think, and give me a ping if you or anyone else finds something else to add/edit :) PotentPotables (talk) 23:47, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

• Excellent work PotentPotables :) I have replied wherever necessary, and underlined 3 points that may still need some discussion. Cheers, Sainsf (t · c) 05:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

• Updated with updates, Sainsf, I think I've addressed/underlined all the points! PotentPotables (talk) 14:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

  PotentPotables great! Ready for promotion :) Sainsf (t · c) 15:25, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by DannyS712 (talk) 14:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Frédéric Passy was challenged to a duel over the 1901 Nobel Peace Prize? Source: [2] - p.53 (Michael Clinton (2007). "Frédéric Passy: Patriotic Pacifist". Journal of Historical Biography)
  • ALT1':... that despite winning the Nobel Peace Prize, Frédéric Passy condemned it as an attractor of money-seekers? Source: [3] - p.54 (Michael Clinton (2007). "Frédéric Passy: Patriotic Pacifist". Journal of Historical Biography)

• Comment: I have proposed 2 hooks to be used, either one is good to me. PotentPotables (talk) 17:48, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Improved to Good Article status by PotentPotables (talk). Self-nominated at 17:48, 27 May 2020 (UTC).

• All good, as expected from a GA pass. Hooks are fine, I find the main more interesting than the ALT. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)