Talk:Frances Ames/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Cwmhiraeth (talk · contribs) 12:20, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

• I propose to take on this review. Frances Ames seems to be an admirable person who has achieved much. I will start my review in the next few days. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:20, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you. I hope to get started on this as time permits. Viriditas (talk) 00:39, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• @Cwmhiraeth: I've started work on addressing the "First reading" assessment over at User:Viriditas/sandbox2. I'll ping you when I'm done. Viriditas (talk) 23:07, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

• FYI, this probably won't change very much, but I think you should be aware of my current situation regarding some of the sources in this article.[1] Viriditas (talk) 00:05, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

First reading

In general this article is well-written and well-organised. A few points that struck me:

• "She earned her MD degree in 1954 from UCT, the first woman to do so." - This sentence seems ambiguous to me. Presumably she was the first ever at UCT rather than the first in 1954.

• I don't read it as ambiguous, but let me know what I can do to remove any unintended ambiguity. Do you have a preferred wording I can implement? Viriditas (talk) 02:44, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

OK. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:04, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• A date for Biko's detention would be helpful.

• Done.[2] Viriditas (talk) 02:52, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "... detained by Port Elizabeth security police for 25 days where he was beaten and tortured." I don't think "where" is right here.

• "Where" refers to Port Elizabeth. How would you like me to reword it? I'm open to changing it. Viriditas (talk) 02:52, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

How about "... detained by Port Elizabeth security police for 25 days during which time he was beaten and tortured."

I see what you mean, but I think this changes the meaning. You see, he was detained for 25 days at Port Elizabeth, where he was beaten and tortured. But he was not tortured and beaten for 25 days. I will try to clear this up in the coming days. Viriditas (talk) 08:52, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

I think I just figured out how to fix this. Viriditas (talk) 03:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

• "... and even the council itself." - Did they think there should be a formal enquiry by the council into its own actions?

• No, I don't think that's what the sentence was intended to mean, but it is ambiguous, so I will attempt to fix it. Viriditas (talk) 06:01, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• The lead is supposed to be a summary of the main body of the article. In this case, it contains certain information that is not included elsewhere - the matter of the Supreme Court. In fact that information needs a citation as does the fact that it was "at great risk to their professional careers".

• No problem. Those sources are already in the article, but I'll make it explicit. I suppose this might be an opportunity to merge internal resistance to South African apartheid into the article. Viriditas (talk) 06:05, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• I think I fixed this, but I'll do another read just to be sure. Viriditas (talk) 02:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

• You could rearrange the citations at the end of the "Biko affair" section to put them in numerical order.
• "cannabis sativa" is the scientific name of the plant and should be written Cannabis sativa.

• Fixed.[3] Viriditas (talk) 00:49, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• You could substitute "War on Drugs" for "war on drugs", and wikilink it.

• Done.[4] Viriditas (talk) 00:39, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "She continued to work at Valkenberg Hospital six weeks before she died on 11 November" - missing word.

• Can you clarify? Are you looking for the word "for", as in "for six weeks"?[5] Viriditas (talk) 02:56, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

"until six weeks" possibly. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:04, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Done.[6] Viriditas (talk) 09:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Ames was married to editorial writer David Castle of the Cape Times with whom they had four sons." - This sentence needs attention.

• I replaced "they" with "she". Is that better? [7] Viriditas (talk) 02:54, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

I would suggest "Ames was married to editorial writer David Castle of the Cape Times and they had four sons."

Done.[8] Viriditas (talk) 09:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• "When did she have leukaemia? The last date mentioned was 1967 when her husband died.

• I know. I'll look at the sources again and see if I can't find anything, but I'm pretty sure that information is in her autobiography, which I can't find a copy of in Hawaii. Do you have access to the book Mothering in an Apartheid Society? Viriditas (talk) 03:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• All I could do was add a ref to Grundy, which states: "Human rights activist and academic Professor Frances Ames has died aged 82 after a long battle against leukaemia."[9] That's the best I can do. Viriditas (talk) 03:05, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

• The first sentence of the "Legacy" section is mostly in the past tense but the second sentence starts off in the present tense.

• I'm happy to reword. Can you recommend anything? Viriditas (talk) 20:13, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

• "... and history eventually justified her action." - What action?

• Fixed. Viriditas (talk) 04:06, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

• "Van Niekerk" - usually has a lower case "v" .

• Fixed.[10] Viriditas (talk) 00:45, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• There is rather a dearth of Wikilinks in the article in general.

• You're right. I tend to experiment with different editing styles. This article was written during my "no wikilinks" phase. I'm happy to link to whatever you think is necessary. Viriditas (talk) 00:41, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

"Groote Schuur Hospital" is wikilinked twice in one paragraph! Otherwise I suggest you wikilink places in South Africa and people mentioned where Wikipedia articles exist. Also medical terms such as "multiple sclerosis" and "leukaemia". Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:04, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

I removed the duplicate link to Groote Schuur Hospital.[11] I will revisit the wikilinks tomorrow. Viriditas (talk) 09:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

I added additional links today.[12] Viriditas (talk) 09:18, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

• That's about it for the time being. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:57, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Second reading

Most of the things mentioned above have been dealt with.

• The last sentence of "Personal life" and the second sentence of "Death" have some duplication. Note that the book's name has changed by its second mention!
  • Done. Viriditas (talk) 04:25, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
• I am still unhappy about the first two sentences of "Biko affair". I would like to suggest:

"South African anti-apartheid activist Steve Biko, a formerly medical student at the University of Natal Medical School, was detained by Port Elizabeth security police on 18 August 1977. During 25 days in detention he was beaten and tortured, fell into a coma and died from his injuries on 12 September. According to allegations by Ames and others, surgeon Ivor Lang, along with chief district surgeon Benjamin Tucker, collaborated with the police in covering up the abuse." Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:33, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

• @Cwmhiraeth: I've mostly been doing research today on how to rewrite the lead and expand the body. I'll spend the next two days (or so) making the changes. I'll ping you when I'm done. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 09:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

• Please note, the link pointing to the award info on the official South African government website is down. It may be a temporary DNS issue of some kind.[13] Viriditas (talk) 01:09, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
• Also note, I haven't been able to fully address the above concerns at this moment, but they will be addressed by later tonight (HST) or by tomorrow morning, when I have more free time. Viriditas (talk) 02:08, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

There's no rush. Take your time. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:27, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Note: in an attempt to be comprehensive, I just found a new source today which I want to incorporate into the article. I wonder where it came from, as it wasn't available before. Anyway, I'm glad it's here now. Viriditas (talk) 21:12, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

@Viriditas: Do you want to do any more work on this article before I finish my review? I am not intending to fail it. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, give me another 24 hours. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 06:52, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I just found an enormous stash of press clippings in a UCT archive that will fill in the missing gaps.[14] Viriditas (talk) 10:36, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Ping me when you are ready. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:02, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

@Cwmhiraeth: I'm ready for your final review. Viriditas (talk) 06:08, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

GA criteria

• The article has been improved considerably over the course of this review. It is well written and complies with MOS guidelines on prose and grammar, structure and layout.
• The article uses many reliable third-party sources, and makes frequent citations to them. I do not believe it contains original research.
• The article covers the main aspects of the subject and remains focussed.
• The article is neutral.
• The article is stable. It was created by the nominator in August 2014 and has hardly been edited by anyone else.
• There are no images in the article because no suitable images were available.

• Final assessment - I believe this article surpasses the GA criteria. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:07, 10 February 2015 (UTC)