Talk:Franklin D. Roosevelt/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Eddie891 (talk · contribs) 21:05, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

This's a large article, so once I begin commenting, please expect it to take at least a week. I will assume that there's a reasonable amount of reliability (or not), but will not be reading a book as I review to ascertain 100% reliability. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 21:05, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

Cool, thanks for taking this on. Orser67 (talk) 05:40, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

If I forget to continue going through the article piece by piece every couple days, please do ping me. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 01:55, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

This is a very good article, so I AM going to be very nit-picky in my problems. When I ask something as a question, I don't need an answer, but would like it to be answered in the article. If it don't make sense, don't change it.Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 01:55, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Lede

• "emerged as a central figure" perhaps change to "became a central figure" as emerged sounds as if he is coming into view rather than becoming.

• Good call, done Orser67 (talk) 06:57, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Early Life and Marriage

• "Roosevelt's parents, who were sixth cousins" maybe just "Roosevelt's parents, sixth cousins"

• I think I'm going to disagree here, the "who" makes it clear that they were both married and sixth cousins. Orser67 (talk) 07:09, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "Roosevelt grew up in an atmosphere of privilege." I don't really follow how privilege is an atmosphere. Perhaps rephrase.

  I changed it to "grew up in a wealthy family" Orser67 (talk) 07:09, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "James was a prominent Bourbon Democrat when he took along five-year-old Franklin to see President Grover Cleveland, the busy president told Franklin, "I have one wish for you, little man, that you will never be President of the United States." I don't understand why these are all in the same sentence. Orser67 (talk) 07:09, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• I took out the quote because I don't think that it's that important to FDR. I can't remember if I was the one to put that in originally or not but I guess if someone really wants it back in we could rephrase it. Orser67 (talk) 07:09, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "Roosevelt attended Groton School, an Episcopal boarding school in Groton, Massachusetts; 90% of the students were from families on the social register." Again, why are these in the same sentence?

  I added that it was known for educating the sons of the wealthy and powerful, which I think explains why they are in the same sentence. Orser67 (talk) 07:09, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "Like all but two of his twenty one Groton classmates," This's somewhat odd phrasing. Perhaps change to "Like most of his Groton classmates," or "Like all but two of his Groton classmates," (and list the twenty-one farther up) or something of the like.

  Changed to "like most" Orser67 (talk) 07:09, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "was again an average student academically," where else does it mention that he was average?

• Removed "again". Previously the article had mentioned that he was an average student at Groton (possibly via a quote?), but I took that out as I thought it was unnecessary to mention that he was an average student in both high school and college. Orser67 (talk) 07:09, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "Nonetheless, Roosevelt campaigned for Theodore's opponent, William Jennings Bryan, in the 1904 presidential election." why is this? And how did he campaign,as he was still in college?

• I removed the sentence, because it's actually inaccurate (Bryan was the Dem nominee in 1896, 1900, and 1908, but not 1904). If I find a good source for it, I'd like to add that Roosevelt inherited his father's partisan alignment and was a Democrat his entire adult life (which is notable since he was personally close to a Republican president). Orser67 (talk) 07:25, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "established a separate house" how does one establish a house?

• changed to "home", does that work? Orser67 (talk) 07:25, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• is it common to list children, when a paragraph would serve just as well?

• changed to prose Orser67 (talk) 07:25, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Early Political Career

• "recruited Roosevelt to run for a seat in the New York State Assembly." is there a reason, it doesn't seem like he was very prominent at the time? <-Reading farther down, I see. Might consider putting the mention of why earlier in the paragraph.

• Good call, moved up Orser67 (talk) 08:07, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "group of "Insurgents" who opposed" how big was the group? are we talking a significant political force or not?"

• Added the number of Democrats who opposed the tammany candidate Orser67 (talk) 08:07, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "In the 1911 U.S. Senate election, which was determined in a joint session of the New York state legislature," you might consider mentioning why this concerned Roosevelt. (i.e. a footnote explaining that the legislature elected senators)

• Good idea, done Orser67 (talk) 08:07, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "giving Roosevelt national exposure" I don't understand how a Senate election gave Roosevelt national exposure more than anyone else. Was he the only one to oppose?

• I don't have access to Burns or Gunther, and I think the general point of Roosevelt emerging is covered in adequately subsequent sentences, so I'm going to delete this. Orser67 (talk) 08:07, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "One Tammany leader warned that Roosevelt should be eliminated immediately," how would he be eliminated?

  Removed. I think Roosevelt's relations with Tammany are adequately covered without this sentence. Orser67 (talk) 08:07, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "Despite Theodore Roosevelt's third party campaign for the presidency, Franklin Roosevelt continued to support Wilson in the general election, and Wilson became the first Democrat to win a presidential election since 1892." Yet again, he goes against his 'idol' Why is this? did he really idolize Theodore Roosevelt as much as you claim?

• I added a couple sentences regarding FDR's partisan affiliation and relationship with Theodore. Between Dallek, Smith, and Brands, I haven't found a paragraph explaining exactly why he chose to go with Wilson over Theodore Roosevelt in 1912, but I hope it's now clear that FDR was both a committed Democrat and an admirer of Theodore. Orser67 (talk) 08:22, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "Winston Churchill" what was he doing when Roosevelt met him?

  I'm pretty sure I didn't add that paragraph, and it seems inconsequential, so I'm removing it. Orser67 (talk) 08:07, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• "Roosevelt accepted the loss without issue" what does "without issue" imply?

• He wasn't devastated by it; he moved on quickly with his life. "Without issue" is maybe not the best way of putting it, have any ideas for improvement? Orser67 (talk) 08:07, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

• It's fine.

Paralytic illness and political wilderness

• "His main symptoms were fever; symmetric, ascending paralysis; facial paralysis; bowel and bladder dysfunction; numbness and hyperesthesia; and a descending pattern of recovery." Is it really necessary to list every symptom?

• Agreed, I simplified it a little.

• "Roosevelt was left permanently paralyzed from the waist down. He was diagnosed with poliomyelitis at the time, but his symptoms are more consistent with Guillain–Barré syndrome" consider rephrasing as "Permanently paralyzed from the waist down, Roosevelt was diagnosed with poliomyelitis at the time. However, subsequent analysis has suggested that his symptoms are more consistent with Guillain–Barré syndrome."

  I like your version of the sentence. I did leave in that his doctors did not consider the possibility of Guillain–Barré syndrome Orser67 (talk) 22:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

• "He was careful never to be seen using his wheelchair in" perhaps change this he to "Roosevelt"

  Done

• "the speech at the 1924 convention marked a return to public life following his illness and convalescence." what about when he helped Al Smith in '22? wouldn't that be a sufficient return to public life?

  I clarified that his role in the 1922 campaign consisted of him endorsing Smith Orser67 (talk) 22:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Governor of New York

• Do we know why Roosevelt resisted the urges to run? Did he give a reason?

  Added why he was relucantant

• Perhaps link to "Acclamation" and "unemployment insurance" page

  Done

• "Roosevelt was narrowly elected governor by a one-percent margin." the "narrowly" and "one-percent margin" parts seem repetitive. Perhaps pick one or the other.

  Done

• he reiterated his doctrine from the campaign two years before: "that progressive government by its very terms, must be a living and growing thing, that the battle for it is never ending and that if we let up for one single moment or one single year, not merely do we stand still but we fall back in the march of civilization." What does the quote add?

  I'm trying to give readers and idea of how he was perceived as governor. He served as the governor of the most populous state of the country for four years and was widely viewed as presidential contender during that time, and I think the quote helps show that he was firmly in the progressive camp. Orser67 (talk) 22:41, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

• It appears that the Temporary Emergency Relief Administration led directly to the Federal Emergency Relief Administration. You might link there, or mention it.

1932 Presidential Election

• "the first Democratic president since Woodrow Wilson" that seems very out of place. Perhaps try just "a Democratic president" and put the fact about Wilson later in the text.

  How about, the first Democratic president in 12 years? I think it's important to establish that Democrats had been out of power for a long time. Orser67 (talk) 22:47, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

• What you have is fine. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 22:52, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

• "Roosevelt himself had not taken a public stand on the issue prior to the convention" earlier you say Roosevelt was considered "as bringing balance to the ticket as a moderate, a Wilsonian, and a prohibitionist with a famous name."

  The 1932 part is definitely accurate. I will look into how/if his views changed during the 1920s. Orser67 (talk) 22:47, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

  I added a couple sentences that I think help illuminate FDR, prohibition, and the Dem party during the 1920s Orser67 (talk) 16:19, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

• "(by political scientists) " is that necessary?

  Rewrote sentence

Presidency

• "made certain he made all the major decisions" perhaps you could just say "made all the major decisions"

  I'll be back on Monday or Tuesday to continue working on the article. I will respond to all of your comments so please feel free to continue the review if you have the time and inclination Orser67 (talk) 17:29, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

  Done

• When Roosevelt was inaugurated" perhaps change to "When Roosevelt was inaugurated on..."

  Good catch

• "had closed their banks" what does this mean?

• They were literally closed for business, i.e. they were no performing no operations

• "unanimous decision of the US Supreme Court in May 1935; Roosevelt strongly protested." perhaps change to "unanimous decision of the US Supreme Court in May 1935; a decision which Roosevelt strongly protested."

  went with ";Roosevelt strongly protested the decision."

• "Recovery was pursued through "pump-priming" (that is, federal spending)" why not just change to "Recovery was pursued through increased federal spending."?

  Good idea

• "The WPA undertook numerous construction projects but also provided funding to the " perhaps change to "The WPA undertook numerous construction projects and provided funding to the"

  Done

• "crucial political capital on the failed bill." how so? what does it mean by Political capital?

  I just removed the part about political capital, since I think the important point is captured two paragraphs down with this sentence: "With Roosevelt's influence on the wane following the failure of the Judicial Procedures Reform Bill of 1937, conservative Democrats joined with Republicans to block the implementation of further New Deal programs."

• "eight of the nine Justices were Roosevelt appointees. Of the justices on the court when Roosevelt took office, only Owen Roberts and Harlan Fiske Stone (who Roosevelt elevated to Chief Justice) would outlast Roosevelt." how are eight of nine Roosevelt appointees, if two non-Roosevelt appointees were on the court?

• Since Stone was already on the Court when FDR took office, but FDR elevated him to Chief Justice, he was technically a Roosevelt appointee. I moved the part about Stone to a note.

• "The result that the was the United States now had normal diplomatic relations with states that it had previously denounced as dictatorial." is this sentence necessary? I get what it is saying, but seems to be not needed, or perhaps condensible.

• I think this sentence has been edited by someone else as I can't find it

• "their goal was to break the link between arms sales and the push for a declaration of war of the sort they claimed existed in 1917. " I don't follow this sentence.

  I think this sentence was also moved/edited? Apologies if I'm just missing it

• "— the first of 1,700 letters and telegrams between them" Seems to be unnecessary. Perhaps not

• Yeah I'm borderline on that. I do think it's interesting how much they corresponded and helps illuminate the crucial anglo-american relations of the era. I think I'll leave it in but I wouldn't object if someone removed it

• "shocked American opinion," How is american OPINION shocked? wouldn't the people themselves be who are shocked?

• changed to "shocked the American public" Orser67 (talk) 05:43, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

• "with longstanding tradition and run for an unprecedented third term." don't you think 'longstanding tradition' and 'unprecedented' are unnecessary? I'd pick one of the two.

• • Yes I do

• Do we know why Roosevelt wanted Wallace so much as his candidate?

  Added

• "recalled General Douglas MacArthur in" perhaps remove recalled, or replace with something else

  switched to reinstated

• "to commence Operation Overlord on" perhaps change 'commence' to something else (i.e. begin)

  How about launch?

• " and by 1944 he was notice" comma after 1944?

• I removed by 1944 since I think it's unnecessary given the rest of the sentence

• Can you give a reason why he did consistently denied reports of bad health?

  I added a sentence that I think indirectly illustrates his state of mind; basically he didn't want to be forced out office (either by losing an election or otherwise) due to bad health

• " Prior to the election, Roosevelt may have used his authority over the" which election? May have? did he or not?

  I removed the sentence, I think if it stays in it needs to be rephrased to show why the author made that conclusion

• "enown for his investigation of inefficiency " link to Truman Commission somewhere?

  Good idea

• As Allen Drury later said, "so ended an era, and so began another"." Necessary? I think not

  Agreed, especially given the next sentence

• I notice hardly any talk of what his wife did. Perhaps add some.

  Added a couple sentences

Civil rights, internment, and the Holocaust

• "Roosevelt was a hero to African Americans, Catholics, and Jews" I don't like this sentence, because it portrays him as almost a savior the 'helpless' peoples. Perhaps rephrase to "Roosevelt was viewed as a hero by many African Americans, Catholics, and Jews"

  Agreed

• "It was not likely to pass and the political fight might threaten his ability to pass his highest priority programs—though he did denounce lynchings as "a vile form of collective murder"." do we know how the African Americans reacted? perhaps only include if they were outraged?

• I reorganized it in a way that I think makes clear how african americans responded to his programs overall. This could probably be a whole article on its own but I don't want to get too deep into the weeds. Orser67 (talk) 21:14, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

• "Their moves into manufacturing positions were critical to their success." I don;t understand this sentence. Is it talking about the success of individuals, or a race? Is it talking about the previous sentence? If the latter is true, I'd suggest removing it as unnecessary.

  Yes, that paragraph was not very clear. I rewrote it in a way that I think summarizes the key points.

• "Top military leaders and War Department leaders rejected any campaign to bomb the extermination camps or the rail lines leading to the camps, fearing it would be a diversion from the war effort. According to biographer Jean Edward Smith, there is no evidence that anyone ever proposed such a campaign to Roosevelt himself." if it was never proposed to Roosevelt, why does it merit a mention in his biography?

• Good question. This whole section is, to some degree, about stuff that FDR himself didn't necessarily regard as being of top-importance. That isn't to say that he didn't care, but rather that people today probably assign these issues a significantly higher priority than he did. This sentence from the legacy section sort of sums up what I'm getting at: "Long after his death, new lines of attack criticized Roosevelt's policies regarding helping the Jews of Europe,[331] incarcerating the Japanese on the West Coast,[332] and opposing anti-lynching legislation." So anyway, there's significant controversy over some of these issues, which is why Smith covered them in his book, and why I think that this particular sentence is worth including in some form. Orser67 (talk) 23:07, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

• • That's it. I'm going away on Saturday, so the sooner you get back, the better.Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:46, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
    • Eddie891, thank you for the feedback and suggestions, I sincerely appreciate all of them, even those that I did not fully agree with. Orser67 (talk) 01:54, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
• Orser67 Promoting. Great Work. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 01:56, 16 February 2018 (UTC)