Talk:Franz Werfel

Where does it suggest Werfel was an ethnic Czech?

Many lands are multi-ethnic lands. The territory of Poland in the 1920s was a land of Poles, Jews, Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Belarussians, Germans, and even Swedes and Roma. You cannot claim that because a person was born in an area that was part of one nation's territorial acquisitions, that person is of that nationality's ethnic dominance. It is pseudo-scientific and offensive to many ethnicities. Where does it suggest that Franz Werfel was ethnically Czech? The word Czech never in history was used as a blanket term for anyone born in Czech lands. It is a specific term referring to Slavic-speaking inhabitants of Bohemia and Moravia who identified as Czech. Werfel was by all standard double-checked references online an Austrian Bohemia (sometimes known as German-Bohemian). If anyone wishes to point out he is a Bohemian by birth, make a category that is sufficient for that. 141.211.251.69 22:47, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

What does Poland have to do with this? Yes your German view of Czech history is pseudo-scientific and offensiv. Well you are right in the Czech lands didn't lived Czechs but Arabians mhm... Silesia is also a part of Czech lands and before rise of austrofascist nationalism the Czechs were called Bohemians. But then the robber-austrofascistic barbars prenamed us to prove territorial questions. Well maybe there were also Indian-Bohemians... Werfel is a Jew and basta! (85.0.2.33 (talk) 18:05, 8 May 2012 (UTC))

There are plenty of references that describe Werfel as Czech; here are two from leading British national newspapers.

The Guardian: Oct 30, 1999; Rory Carroll; p. 16: "the Czech poet Franz Werfel - a Jew."

Daily Mail: Nov 6, 1999; Glenys Roberts; p. 42: "the anti-Nazi Czech writer Franz Werfel"

--20.138.246.89 11:35, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, newspapers are not noted for their love of accuracy. Werfel was a German-speaking Jew from Prague. He was born in the Austro-Hungarian Empire and whilst that state existed he was a national of the Austro-Hungarian empire. I'm unaware whether he took Czechoslovakian nationality after the creation of that state, as most Prague Germans did - 22% of the inhabitants of Czechoslovakia were "ethnically" German on its foundation (there were more Germans than there were Slovaks). If he did not, then I assume he was a national of the new Republic of Austria. The term Czech as anything other than an "ethnic" description has no meaning before 1993 when an independent Czech state came into existence. One might reasonably describe Werfel as German (his primary cultural/linguistic identity), Jewish (his "ethnic" identity), Austrian (his nationality by birth), Bohemian (his regional identity) and Czechoslovakian (his nationality after the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, presuming he did indeed take this nationality), but he was not an "ethnic" Czech and died before there was a Czech Republic to be a citizen of, so he cannot be a Czech. Many places - including Wikipedia - lazily use Czech when they mean Czechoslovakian (which is of course an entirely historical term nowadays). Valiantis 16:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

And what?! Czech nation exists ca. 1300 years and you are dehonouring the history of my folk! We have had our state since Samos empire and not only since 1993. ncnc learn history please! And the germanian Barbars only settled there because of the austrofascistic gouvernment! (85.0.2.33 (talk) 18:05, 8 May 2012 (UTC))

This is all original research. If reliable sources describe someone as Czech, that is all that Wikipedia requires.--Runcorn 18:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

None of what I wrote is original research. All of it is merely statements of fact - Werfel was a Germanophone Jew, he was not an ethnic Czech - this can be ascertained from any literary-historical work on him; it was impossible for him to be a Czech in the sense "Czech national" as there was no Czech state for him to be a national of during his lifetime - basic logic is not overwritten by a quote from a newspaper. Newspaper articles are only reliable sources in the absence of more authoritative materials e.g. a biography. This is precisely because newspapers seldom credit their sources in an academic fashion - especially when providing a half-a-dozen-word gloss to explain to the general readership who a person was. This is precisely the context in which both the above newspaper quotes exist and precisely why flagging these up as "reliable sources" is next to meaningless in this context. To quote from WP:reliable sources "The reliability of a source depends on context." In this context they are at best poorly referenced tertiary sources. If either of these quotes came from in-depth newspaper articles with a bibliography then they would be of some merit. Neither do, so they are not. You may care to look at the German language article on Werfel which has genuinely reliable sources - it references a dozen or so academic works about Werfel - and which describes him as "österreichisch" (Austrian) and "deutschböhmisch" (German-speaking Bohemian). Part of dealing with sources is the weighing of evidence; a dozen academic works have more weight that passing comments in a couple of English-language newspapers. To quote again from WP:reliable sources "In general, a topic should use the most reliable sources available to its editors." Valiantis 22:13, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

The only one who isn't original research is you! The Naziquellen who are sayin that he's Austrain aren't more better than that. He was a Jew dosen't matter if he spoke German, Czech or even Hindu. (85.0.2.33 (talk) 18:05, 8 May 2012 (UTC))

I contributed an original article to Wikipedia on Elisabeth Jerichau-Baumann. She was born in Poland of German parentage and married a Dane. Various editors have changed her nationality several times since I first wrote the article. It appears to be about nationalism in that case and not about reliable references at all. Could we be dealing with the same problem here? Mike Hayes (talk) 01:33, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Franz Werfel

The Wikipedia bibliography of Franz Werfel does not mention his book "Cella, or the Survivors." I come from a family of German Jewish refugees from the Holocaust. Werfel's book on the subject is the most chillingly accurate on-the-ground account of what was happening at the time for cosmopolitan Jewish civilians in Europe who were trying desperately to get out. Although it is out-of-print, that is no reason to exclude it from the bibliography especially with the vast resources available on the internet for finding books. Thank you.

66.234.215.136 03:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

There aren't any German Jews there are only JEWS! (85.0.2.33 (talk) 18:05, 8 May 2012 (UTC))

I've added his small but remarkable work Eine blassblaue Frauenschrift to the list, as it seems, still quite unknown to the English-speaking world. Wayasu (talk) 19:41, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

5th paragraph

Just what does "having Jewish features" mean? Mannanan51 (talk) 01:57, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Franz Werfel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20030404184202/http://oldsite.library.upenn.edu/special/mahler/werfel.html to http://oldsite.library.upenn.edu/special/mahler/werfel.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:52, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Downgrade of rating to C class; lack of music a problem

The article is currently missing music content which is a problem as much of Werfel's writing/poetry did have a musical bent. For example, his novel Verdi: Roman der Oper is essentially placing composers Giuseppe Verdi and Richard Wagner at odds with one another as its central theme. He also wrote quite a lot on philosophy around music in his poetry, and wrote scholarly works on Verdi and translated some of Verdi's operas into German which were widely performed in German speaking countries. He was also an opera librettist for Ernst Krenek's Zwingburg and Kurt Weil's The Eternal Road. There is a rather lengthy entry on Werfel in The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians. Much of that content in that entry is not currently in this article. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:15, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

He was of course married to Alma Mahler, but he was not a musician himself (in the sense of composing or prominently performing any melodies), and connections with music were not his main claim to fame -- arguably not the first, second, or even third thing that he's known for -- so it's hard to see how music is so essential to this article... AnonMoos (talk) 13:12, 16 September 2024 (UTC)