Talk:French cruiser Friant

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:French cruiser Friant/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Usernameunique (talk · contribs) 22:30, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Infobox

• Here and elsewhere, how about some alt text?

• Following up. —Usernameunique (talk) 17:43, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

• Ah, missed that before - added.

Lead

• Friant and her two sister ships — I may be missing it, but is there a place in the body that explicitly says what the three sister ships are called?
  • Added

Design

• war scare — Is there a relevant article?
  • Not that I'm aware of
• 3,982 long tons (4,046 t) — Inconsistent abbreviation.
  • Same as the Sfax review - long tons aren't abbreviated for some reason
    • Knots as well. —Usernameunique (talk) 17:43, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
      • I prefer to leave knots spelled out as it's less common and we're not gaining all that much by abbreviating it. Parsecboy (talk) 17:51, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• Her crew consisted of 339 officers and enlisted men. — I assume there's no breakdown?
  • No, unfortunately
• Since you're a fan of non-breaking spaces, you might also look into non-breaking hyphens. But that's a stylistic point beyond the scope of this review.

Service history

• but stability problems delayed her completion — The completion of Friant only, or also of Chasseloup-Laubat?
  • Just Friant
• Northern Squadron — Anything to link to?
  • Not at the moment
• four coastal defense ships, the armored cruiser Dupuy de Lôme, and the protected cruisers Chasseloup-Laubat and Coëtlogon — This sentence takes some working through to realize that the named ships following "four coastal defense ships" are in addition to—rather than the names of—those coastal defense ships. Using semicolons
  • Done
• She took part in the maneuvers that year — What maneuvers?
  • Reworded
• 1st Division — Anything to link to?
  • Not at the moment
• six other cruisers were assigned to the station in addition to the three Friant-class ships. — Worth a footnote stating which ones?
  • I suppose
• Friant was struck by a typhoon on 8 August 1902 — Any idea what one? I ask, since this site has scores of articles about different storms.
  • Looks like we don't have articles that far back (or at least that's what I'm assuming from 1902–19_Pacific_typhoon_seasons#1902)
    • Well that's a shame. I've always wondered what each typhoon was named in 1902. --Usernameunique (talk) 22:55, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• Any idea when Friant returned to France?
  • No, I wasn't able to track that down

World War I

• Division de l'Atlantique ... 2nd Light Squadron ... Division du Maroc — Anything to link to?
  • No, French naval units (and actually, many naval units in general) are pretty under developed at the moment
• Upon arriving back in France — Any word on precisely when?
  • No, unfortunately, but the voyage wouldn't have taken more than a couple of days
• several auxiliary cruisers ... four British cruisers — Any reason they're not named?
  • Meirat does not name the British cruisers, and I don't know that the auxiliaries are worth naming (none of them have articles)
    • If you think the auxiliaries are red-link worthy, I'd go for it. But not as important otherwise. --Usernameunique (talk) 22:55, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
      • I don't know that they are - they're only mentioned in passing, and there are a great many merchant vessels in the 20th century that aren't particularly notable.
• The division tasked with patrolling the sea lanes off the coast of northwestern Africa and protect merchant shipping from commerce raiders. — Something's off here.
  • Fixed
• the armored cruisers were transferred elsewhere. — Where was Friant transferred?
  • Friant remained there, along with the other two protected cruisers - it was Bruix and Amiral Charner that were moved
• What's a repair ship?
  • Linked

References

• Algue 1904: Link to PD source?
  • Added
• Brassey (all): Link to PD source?
  • Added
• Garbett 1907: Any reason his first name isn't given?
  • I don't know it - he's credited as H. Garbett on the cover
• Where's Barnsley? I realize you don't include state etc. names, although for lesser-known places (e.g., not London/New York/Manila) it might help.
  • I don't know why - no one's going to look up the book by the location of its publisher
    • Same point as in the Sfax review; if you're going to include a location, may as well give enough identifying information to make it clear what town is being referred to. Although at least there is a Barnsley article, unlike the scads of Jeffersons listed on the Jefferson page. --Usernameunique (talk) 22:55, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
      • You're looking at this like a reviewer. A reader won't care about the location someplace was published. And I can tell you, as someone who has written hundreds of these articles and gone through multiple dozens of FACs, if you include additional data for some cities, someone else will inevitably come along and demand that you include them for all of them. The same is true for links. I would rather avoid the trouble and leave the information out, as it isn't useful.
        • "You're looking at this like a reviewer" — Glad to know I'm doing my job! --Usernameunique (talk) 18:05, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
          • As something of an aside, it was pointed out to me in a different review that the APA ditched publishing locations altogether.
            • I don't know what you're talking about. When I want to track down a source through its citation, I first look at the publisher's location; fly there; look up the publisher in the yellow pages; drive there; and ask if they have a copy of the book. Not having the location makes this tremendously difficult, if not outright impossible. --Usernameunique (talk) 22:32, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
• F. P. D. S. Newsletter. Akron: F. P. D. S. — Is "F. P. D. S. Newsletter" really initialed? Can it at least be spelled out after "Akron:"?
  • That's how it's listed in Worldcat - I can spell it out for the publisher
• Naval Notes 1898: Link to PD source?
  • Added
• Thursfield (both): Link to PD source?
  • Those volumes are linked earlier
    • As are the OCLCs, which are arguably far less important; much as it's helpful to know what libraries have a work, a link is even more helpful. But generally, same point as in the Sfax review; it's an opportunity to add a link to the specific chapters, and a reader isn't going to necessarily think to look for a URL elsewhere. --Usernameunique (talk) 22:55, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
      • The links aren't to specific chapters, though, and as far as I'm aware, there's no way to do that with google book links. Parsecboy (talk) 11:56, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
        • Take a look at the example I've just done. Google books allows you to link to a specific page; navigate to the page you want, click on the link button (the image of the three chain links, directly to the left of the "Add to my library" button), and copy what's there. Frequently there's some fluff in the URL that you can delete to shorten it (e.g., "#v=onepage&q&f=false"). The page number is controlled by the "&pg=PA140" (or PA139, etc.) parameter. Sometimes I've noticed that there's an errant "l" (e.g., "&lpg=PA140") which makes the link to the page not work; just delete the "l" and it works again. --Usernameunique (talk) 18:05, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
          • Huh, who knew? You, obviously ;) I'll have to play around with it. Parsecboy (talk) 18:17, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Overall

• Parsecboy, have at it. To the extent things are covered in the French cruiser Sfax review, feel free to just respond there. --Usernameunique (talk) 00:45, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
  • @Usernameunique: - any update on this one? Thanks. Parsecboy (talk) 15:49, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
    • Sorry for letting this drop, Parsecboy. I've left a response above about Google Books URLs that might be of interest, but am passing now. --Usernameunique (talk) 18:05, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
      • No problem, thanks again. Parsecboy (talk) 18:17, 14 May 2020 (UTC)