Talk:Freya von Moltke

Latest comment: 4 years ago by HopsonRoad in topic recognition by Merkel

Not demonstrably notable?

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This article does not meet the notability guidelines at WP:BIO. Association with notables does not , itself, make a person notable. A diligent author might make a case for notability might be made from von Moltke's autobiograpy, Memories of Kreisau and the German Resistance by Freya von Moltke, but I'm not sure how. Unless a case for notability is made by December 1, 2007, I will nominate it for deletion.HopsonRoad (talk) 16:23, 17 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

Good luck with that, then. Her Memories of Kreisau and the German Resistance is better described as history, not autobiography. And since she is a subject of Moltmann-Wendel, Elisabeth, Das Leben lieben - mehr als den Himmel : Frauenporträts, Gütersloh : Gütersloher Verlagshaus, 2005, Dorothee von Medingas, Courageous Hearts: Women and the Anti-Hitler Plot of 1944, and Alison Owings Frauen: German Women Recall the Third Reich as well as other works already cited in the article, and since a topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, I suspect your nomination will fail. Or perhaps you will be lucky and be able to improve Wikipedia by deleting the article. You should perhaps ask the German Wikipedia to delete their article as well. Allen Dulles had this to say about her: "The Countess was more than just the wife of the hero von Moltke since she was his close collaborator, untiring comrade-in-arms and the only woman to be present at the meetings of the Kreisau-Circle composed of prominent freedom fighters, Church leaders, intellectuals, labor leaders and army officers who hoped to overthrow the Nazi regime." She has perhaps not attained the same dizzying heights of notability as, say, Helen Hartness Flanders, but she has certainly attained the level of notability required for Wikipedia, despite being a woman who worked in conjunction with her husband. - Nunh-huh 17:15, 17 November 2007 (UTC)Reply
  • Thank you for supporting the case for notability, Nunh-huh. You amply satisfy me with your argument. I'll try to incorporate that material into the article, unless you'd like to go first. I sense a little tongue-in-cheek with your HHF reference. Clearly HHF had the luxury of a peacetime setting to pursue a productive hobby, whereas FvM lived in the middle of a war under one of the most destructive regimes of all time. My issue was that the article didn't portray notable actions by FvM. BTW, the German article is quite light, too. But that's their issue. Sincerely, HopsonRoad (talk) 21:26, 17 November 2007 (UTC)Reply
  • Could you provide a reference for the Allen Dulles quotation, please? I have some descriptions of the other works that you cited in the next section. You could add it to the list, below. Sincerely,HopsonRoad (talk) 01:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

Literature citing Freya von Moltke

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  • Moltmann-Wendel, Elisabeth; Moltmann- Wendel, Elisabeth (2005), Das Leben lieben - mehr als den Himmel. Frauenporträts, Gütersloh: Gütersloher Verlagshaus, ISBN 3579052098-10 {{citation}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help).
  • Von Meding (Author), Dorothee; Balfour (Translator), Michael; Berghahn (Translator), Volker R. (1997), Courageous Hearts: Women and the Anti-Hitler Plot of 1944, Oxford & New York: Berghahn Books, ISBN 1571818537-10 {{citation}}: |last= has generic name (help); Check |isbn= value: length (help).
  • Owings, Alison (1995), Frauen: German Women Recall the Third Reich, Piscataway, New Jersey: Rutgers University Press, ISBN 0813522005-10 {{citation}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help).
  • Leber, Annedore; von Moltke, Freya (1961), Für und wider—Entscheidungen in Deutschland 1918-1945, Frankfurt-am-Main: Mosaik Verlag.
  • Grose, Peter (1996), Gentleman Spy: The Life of Allen Dulles, Amherst, Massachusetts: University of Massachusetts Press, ISBN 1558490442-10 {{citation}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help).
  • von Moltke, Freya; Hoffmann, Eva (1996), Die Kreisauerin, Göttingen: Lamuv Verlag, ISBN 3889774415-10 {{citation}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help).


HopsonRoad (talk) 01:47, 18 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

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Von Moltke's Death

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Freya von Moltke died on 1 January, 2010. Please review the changes that I have made to reflect this fact in the "View History" section, before making changes to reflect this change in circumstances. User:HopsonRoad 16:19, 3 January 2010 (UTC)Reply

Israeli site

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This Israeli site: [Haaretz] talks about this German woman.Agre22 (talk) 13:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC)agre22Reply

Justification for B-Class, Mid Importance—Project Germany

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The article meets the following five criteria for B-Class:

  • It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited.
  • It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies.
  • It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content.
  • It is free from major grammatical errors.
  • It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams.

It meets the following criteria for Mid Importance:

Topics that are reasonably notable on a national level within Germany without necessarily being famous or very notable internationally, including smaller towns. To support this, note the obituaries from major news outlets in Germany. Note further that von Moltke met with three Bundeskanzelers: Helmut Kohl in 1998, Gerhard Schroeder in 2004, and Angela Merkel in 2007.[1][2]

  1. ^ Ryan, Katie Beth (3 January, 2010), "Norwich Resident, Nazi Resister, Dies at 98", Valley News, pp. 1, 8 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)CS1 maint: date and year (link)
  2. ^ Miller, Stephen (January 5, 2010), "In Hitler's Wartime Germany, She Planted Seeds of Peace", Wall Street Journal

User:HopsonRoad 14:49, 7 January 2010 (UTC)Reply

Links moved from article

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I moved the following links from the article per WP:LINKFARM:

Here they are for mining for use in the article. User:HopsonRoad 04:24, 7 November 2015 (UTC)Reply

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recognition by Merkel

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Regarding my removal of a sentence which was reverted by an editor who claims " belongs here too" I say: The reference clearly attributes the recognition by Merkel to Moltkes husband: " On his centenary anniversary Sunday, German Chancellor Angela Merkel praised him as a symbol of "European courage" and for having a vision of a democratic Europe far ahead of its time." If you want this sentence in her bio, you need to find a different ref.

This whole page is so full of her husbands achievements already, it really should be rewritten. I just did the most general clean up in my copy edit.--Wuerzele (talk) 22:16, 3 May 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hi Wuerzele, I concur that you were headed in the right direction. And I apologize for the confusion that I caused.
Unfortunately, I realized that my reversion of your edit was ill-advised, so I reverted myself and added a phrase in what was there, previously, pertaining to Merkel's characterization of her husband. Now there are two mentions of the same event—the centenary celebration—with your revert of my second edit. I propose that we return to this edit. Do you concur?
Much of Moltke's life was devoted to the memory of her husband, so I don't feel that it's out of place to speak of the two concurrently. In this case, she was the guest of honor at the commemoration; explaining its significance seems to be appropriate in her bio. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 22:31, 3 May 2020 (UTC)Reply
ok, HopsonRoad. More clean up is still needed, though. the bio is severely unbalanced and hypertrophied towards the Kreisau time, while the 60 years afterwards get short shrift in her bio . There are already wikipages about her husband and the Kreisau circle, so i find there is huge redundance. --Wuerzele (talk) 20:35, 4 May 2020 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for your thoughts, Wuerzele. What sources do you have in mind to cover the years between WWII and her death? Sincerely, HopsonRoad (talk) 20:59, 4 May 2020 (UTC)Reply