Talk:Friday Night Football (AFL)

Untitled

Friday night football (rugby league) is broadcast in Victoria. It's after the AFL. So it's not just Northern Territory.

I haven't seen anything to say that Seven will broadcast AFL in Syd/Bris when they regain the rights. They didn't when they had them before, and it would be ratings suicide to do so. Quaidy 06:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

One of the major parts of the new deal with the AFL is that they wanted Friday Night matches to be shown at better times in NSW/QLD. Whether it actually happens remains to be seen. Seth Cohen 05:39, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 10:11, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

AFL/NRL order

I have just done a big cleanup of this page. There was a lot of "previously as part of the 2007 contract" etc talk which I tried to eliminate, making the article simply reflect the current status of the programs, with any old info going under the "Broadcast History" subheadings.

I don't want to start an AFL v NRL war, but I have rotated the article back to its original layout of having AFL first and NRL second. The reason for this is because Firday Night Football was started by the VFL/AFL and Rugby League followed a few years later, thus making the natural flow of the article starting with the AFL (there is even comments in the AFL section about how North Melbourne pioneered FNF, quite rightly putting it ahead of the NRL). If anybody has issues with this, please raise it here and start a discussion rather than just changing it.

Thanks, Seth Cohen (talk) 13:59, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

The order is fine, but FNF was/is the same idea as the NSWRL's Monday Night Football, devised before the start of 1985 season. It didn't start until mid-season though because at that time there was a mid-week competition as well, it had to finish first.So it wasn't a sporadic event as in the VFL, but a planned strategy. Monday was chosen presumably because of the NFL version, but Friday has proved to be the better option.

Requested move 8 November 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Calidum 10:57, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

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• Friday Night Football (AFL) → Friday Night Football (Australian football TV program)
• Friday Night Football (NRL) → Friday Night Football (Australian rugby TV program)

– I don't know about any of you, but I'm not Australian so "AFL" and "NRL" don't mean anything to me, which means they are ineffective as disambiguators (certainly for the "international" readership not from Australia...). In addition, to not being WP:RECOGNIZABLE, the current disambiguation also fails to follow WP:NCTV. So I am proposing that we disambiguate these two TV programs, first "by country", and then by "sport", and then including "TV program" as per WP:NCTV. For a related recent precedent, please see Talk:College GameDay (basketball TV program)#Requested move 1 November 2018. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:25, 8 November 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. SITH (talk) 12:41, 16 November 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. B dash (talk) 13:45, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Strongly oppose - AFL and NRL are both very recognisable terms in Australia and as distinguishers. Think of them as widely understood as NFL and NBA in an American context. The two articles should without question remain as is. The proposed moves make no sense at all as "football TV program" could mean AFL, NRL, rugby union and soccer just to name a few and provides no clarity at all, while "rugby TV program" similarly doesn't clearly distinguish between rugby league or rugby union, again just to name a few of the rugby variants. AFL and NRL are good distinguishers here. NFL is used in article titles without incident, there is no difference here, and this is not American Wikipedia so just like NFL is used in article titles (Primary NFL television stations, List of NFL on Fox commentator pairings, NFL Sunday Ticket) AFL and NRL can and should be as well. -- Whats new?^(talk) 22:01, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Your point being? – Note: We do not disambiguate with "NBA" or "NFL" under WP:NCTV either. There is zero justification for Australia to get "special treatment". And, again – you are completely ignoring international readers, which isn't the aim of Wikipedia... If my proposal isn't "specific enough", then propose something else, please. Because the current titles are unacceptably disambiguated. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:20, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Why not (AFL TV program) and (NRL TV program) - if you are searching for an article about Friday Night Football, you know what is meant by AFL and NRL, and even if you don't, it is explained in the article. If not AFL/NRL then "Australian Rules TV program" and "rugby league TV program" are preferable than the proposed. Including Australian in both is redundant, given it doesn't distinguish between either article. -- Whats new?^(talk) 22:57, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Because, as a non-Australian, I dunno what the #$@% "AFL" and "NRL" mean! That's why we don't disambiguate with stuff like "NFL" or "NBA" either. These are not WP:RECOGNIZABLE disambiguators to anyone who's not Australian. The disambiguator has to be something that the general readership can understand. So, here, "country" isn't enough, and I'm guessing "by year" disambig. will be no help. So it needs to be something intelligible to the general readership. (There's also a further complication – in the U.S. before in addition to the "NFL" there was the AFL, so "AFL" is doubly a "fail" as a disambiguation, as it's ambiguous and confusing...) --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:03, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

OK but I still strongly oppose the proposed titles per reasons explained. Given both codes are titled "Friday Night Football" I would have thought it obvious that "football" would be a horrible distinguisher! -- Whats new?^(talk) 23:07, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

To be honest, when I first saw these, I though "football" = "soccer". So I don't have a good answer for that... Maybe "Australian football TV program" (as in "Australian football" the "sport"), and just "rugby TV program" for the other one?... I dunno. But it needs to be something that's not an unclear acronym... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:12, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

I just don't think "Australian football" is a good distinguisher given both AFL and NRL are known as football. If the whole point of disambiguation is to be WP:RECOGNIZABLE, then I don't think it meets the definition of being clear to the average reader. -- Whats new?^(talk) 01:48, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Then we may be stuck with Friday Night Football (Australian Football League TV program) and Friday Night Football (National Rugby League TV program). I don't like it. But if you're saying that Friday Night Football (Australian football TV program) and Friday Night Football (Australian rugby TV program) aren't good enough, it's all that's left.

And figuring this out is important, because this isn't the only pair of articles with this issue... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:37, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

• Support - I'm not sure I quite understand the oppose. While "football" could mean that, there isn't a TV program called Friday Night Football for any other "football" type other than AFL. That is like saying you can't disambiugate a series by "2018 Australian TV series" as there might be one sitcom and one teen-drama by the same name. There is no reason for an exception to WP:NCTV guidelines and recent practice here. --Gonnym (talk) 22:51, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Beacuse "football" is colloquial for both AFL and NRL - it is not a clear distinguisher. -- Whats new?^(talk) 22:57, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Comment: While I still prefer the general term, if this will help bring this to a close, I can support an alternative if both TV programs exclusively only show league-specific games (however, this fails if they decide to show college games). So then Friday Night Football (Australian Football League TV program) and Friday Night Football (National Rugby League TV program). Also, just to make it clear, I oppose the use of the abbreviations instead of the full name. --Gonnym (talk) 19:19, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't understand this comment. I don't know what a "college game" is - that is not a thing in either AFL or NRL. I assume it's a reference to American football, which just highlights how little knowledge or research has gone into determining appropriate titles. The TV wikiproject uses U.S. and UK to disambiguate (both are abbreviations!) - it is quite the double standard. In any case, perhaps running this whole discussion via a sporting-based wikiproject would be beneficial -- Whats new?^(talk) 08:11, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't know what a "college game" is - could I quote you with which just highlights how little knowledge or research has gone? A TV program that broadcasts a single type of sport (Australian rules football) vs a TV program that broadcasts exclusively a specific league (Australian Football League). My research is limited to what the article says and the article is in good quality, so there could be information missing. Now, what I meant was, if Friday Nights is of the second kind, then I can support my second option, but if it shows games of the first kind, meaning games that are not part of the Australian Football League, such as college games of teams such as Adelaide University Football Club which play for the Adelaide Footy League (which, surprisingly is also "AFL"...), then obviously the second option is incorrect. Also, while the guidelines allow of U.S. and UK, note that they are also the country adjectives, while, as far as I know, AFL and NRL aren't. --Gonnym (talk) 09:52, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

There's no such term as "college football" in Australia, and your reference to the AUFC and state league (of which there are several) has nothing to do with Friday Night Football, which would be pretty obvious with a little bit of research. -- Whats new?^(talk) 22:33, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

If you don't want to listen and are looking for a partner to argue with then I'll just dismiss myself from further discussion. Reaffirming my previous !vote - support current proposal, oppose any proposal that has the abbreviated versions of the league names. --Gonnym (talk) 12:32, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

• Support moves per Gonnym. Though I understand the concerns, there's no way "AFL" is a viable disambiguator. ONR (talk) 05:29, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

That doesn't make the proposed disambiguators viable. "Football" still refers to both codes, and doesn't distinctly distinguish between the programs. -- Whats new?^(talk) 06:27, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

I think the point is, if we're looking at the articles collectively, if people searching come up with one at "football" and the other one at "rugby", it will be clear then which article is referring to which "sport". But I'd still like to get a wider opinion (i.e. the opinion of a wider set of editors) on this one... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:00, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

AFL has been a viable disambiguator for over a decade. What makes it suddenly not viable now? --В²C ☎ 21:30, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose both People unfamiliar with a subject (including myself, in these cases) don't need to recognize the article's subject from the title. If they did, the majority of titles would be unacceptable. Don't believe me? Hit SPECIAL:RANDOM 10 times and tell me how many subjects you can recognize from the title alone. So changing a title just to make the disambiguator recognizable to people unfamiliar with the topic is not a good reason to change, and such proposals violate WP:TITLECHANGES. --В²C ☎ 21:21, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Well done for ignoring that "AFL" also refers to "American Football League" and so is thus fully ambiguous as a disambiguator. Oh, and that these are currently totally wrong under WP:NCTV anyway. So rather than being constructive, and suggesting a viable alternative, you're just going to oppose?... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:42, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
    • I think the only viable option would be to spell out AFL and NRL in the article names if the goal is to avoid any type of confusion between Australian Football League, American Football League and possibly Arena Football League. I know since the AFL-NFL merger the current NFL in the United States can't televise any games on Friday nights otherwise it would lose its anti-trust exemption. I'm not sure if the AFL that pre-dated the current NFL had televised Friday night games. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 19:57, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
      • @Alucard 16: Do you mean you favour Friday Night Football (Australian Football League TV program) and [[and Friday Night Football (National Rugby League TV program) -- Whats new?^(talk) 22:05, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
      • According to the AFL WikiProject, Australian rules football is the appropriate term for the sport itself, so perhaps Friday Night Football (Australian rules football TV program) is preferable for those advocating these very long titles -- Whats new?^(talk) 22:11, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
        • I think the first of those suggestions is better than the second, in this case, as it tells you exactly what these are: "Australian Football League" and "National Rugby League". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:31, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.