Talk:Friday the 13th/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Semi-protection

I have semi-protected for today because it's Friday the 13th today, and that seems to be encouraging a lot of vandalism. -- Beland 17:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

A notice about this should be placed on the article. Lcarsdata 17:28, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Belatedly added; I didn't before because I thought I would not be around to remove it on time, but whatever. -- Beland 04:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Monday?

I'm from Russia and I've never heard that Monday is thought to be an unlucky day by Russians. --AndyTerry 14:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

A Google Books search actually turns up a number of references to this superstition. [1] -- Beland 19:38, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Revise?

"occurring on the 13th day of any month is considered to be a day of bad luck in English, German, Polish and Portuguese-speaking cultures around the globe."

Other countries have this superstition also, e.g. The Netherlands, Belgium other Northern European countries. Why not change to "many cultures around the globe"?

Thr3ddy 21:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

bizarre disappearance of part of the article

part of the article appears to be gone, what's bizarre to me is that I can't find it in the history??? I can't find this in the history although it was there on the morning of 2007-07-13:

• The popular painting of the Last Supper, with stories that Judas numbered among the thirteen guests (Jesus plus his 12 apostles), and that the Crucifixion of Jesus occurred Friday. However, Judas was not actually present for the latter part of the Last Supper according to the Bible Canon because he had left in order to bring Jesus' betrayal to a conclusion later that night (John 13:27-30 and previous context). Therefore, for the majority of The Last Supper, there were only 11 faithful apostles along with Jesus making the total number of those present 12.
• That the biblical Eve offered the fruit to Adam on a Friday, and that the slaying of Abel happened on a Friday (though the Bible does not identify the days of the week when these events occurred). [4]
• Friday 13th October 1066 was the last day of the reign of the Saxon King Harold II. On this day, William, Duke of Normandy offered Harold the option of ceding the crown; Harold declined the offer. The Battle of Hastings took place the following day (Saturday 14th October 1066). Harold was slain and William took control of England.
• Many modern stories (including The Da Vinci Code) claim that when King Philip IV had many Knights Templar simultaneously arrested on Friday, October 13, 1307, that started the legend of the unlucky Friday the 13th.
• Friday and 13 were both sacred to the Norse goddess Freyja, so Friday 13th was especially sacred. Christians who wished to suppress her worship said the day was unlucky.

In the case of Greece, Tuesday, April 13, 1204 was the date on which Constantinople was sacked by the crusaders of the Fourth Crusade. The first-ever fall of what was then the richest Christian city, and the looting that followed, allegedly gave Tuesday 13 its bad meaning. Coincidentally, Constantinople fell for the second time, to the Ottoman Turks, on Tuesday, May 29, 1453, a date that marked the end of the Byzantine empire, and to Greek sovereignty for several centuries, and therefore reinforcing Tuesday as an unlucky day in the Greek world.[citations needed]

ZZyXx 19:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Canada

Why is Canada included as one of the countries that consider Friday the 13th unlucky? I've removed it, because Canada is already included as an English- and French- speaking country. DeanHarding (talk) 00:55, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I know actually quite a few people who live in Canada that are afraid of Friday 13th. BABABA or dududuuuuu

Fewer accidents

This is very scientific since they take precaution, so most notable than other non-skeptics': The Dutch Centre for Insurance Statistics (CVS) on June 12, 2008, stated that "fewer accidents and reports of fire and theft occur when the 13th of the month falls on a Friday than on other Fridays, because people are preventatively more careful or just stay home; but statistically speaking, driving is a little bit safer on Friday 13th; in the last two years, Dutch insurers received reports of an average 7,800 traffic accidents each Friday; but the average figure when the 13th fell on a Friday was just 7,500.www.mirror.co.uk, Friday 13th is no longer unluckyuk.reuters.com, Dutch study shows Friday 13th not more unlucky--Florentino floro (talk) 08:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Ireland

Why is it on the list and not simply covered by "English-speaking?" 72.154.97.62 (talk) 18:53, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

List of births and deaths

I'm thinking that this list needs to be whittled down quite a bit, per Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. If a birth or death was specifically cited in third-party sources as being significant because it occurred on a "Friday the 13th", then it might be worth including. But just listing everyone who happened to die on a Friday which was also the 13th, I can't really see as being useful. Does anyone else have an opinion? --Elonka 02:52, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Could be the trigger for an entirely new web site: WikiTrivia.org THERE, this information could find its purpose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.108.156.36 (talk) 23:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Tarot?

I always assumed the origin of this superstition was due to the fact of Death being the 13th major arcana in the tarot. is this valid? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.249.0.62 (talk) 00:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

If so, this would be the superstition that 13 is unlucky, and not the Friday the 13th superstition. However, the article on Triskaidekaphobia seems to imply that that superstition is older than the tarot. John M Baker (talk) 03:34, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Friday the 13th and the stock market.

This article contains the following statement: Black Friday has been associated with stock market crashes and other disasters since the 1800s.

The major stock market crash that heralded the Great Depression occurred on October 29, 1929 and was known as Black Tuesday. The only Black Friday association to a financial fiasco (to my knowledge) occurred in 1869 and was on September 24th, so that really has nothing to do with Friday the 13th. Perhaps this statement needs to be reconsidered or reworded? Sprout59 (talk) 09:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

The crash that is being referred to is this one: Black Friday (1869). Other disasters can be seen here: Black Friday. Though perhaps in the context of this article, we should use the term "financial crises" rather than stock market crashes? --Elonka 15:11, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Error regarding Continental Airlines crash

Continental Flight 3407 referenced at the end of this article crashed on the evening of Thursday 12 February 2009, NOT on Friday 13 February 2009. See current new headlines such as: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/13/plane.crash.new.york/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2spikeme (talk • contribs) 14:50, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Revising. Some of the events, such as the fire, spilled into Friday, so I think it's worth keeping there.J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 02:51, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Add to natural events

the unix epoch clock hit 1234567890 on february, friday the 13th, 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.105.214.126 (talk) 20:29, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Greek Friday the 13th is Tuesday the 13th

Here in Greece we are not afraid about Friday the 13th we afraid about Tuesday the 13th BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!Have a wonderfull day!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.140.67.190 (talk) 11:07, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the information.  :) Do you have a source which we can use as a citation? If so, we can add the information to the article. --Elonka 14:59, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

This is also true in all spanish-speaking countries. "Tuesday the 13th" should not redirect to this article. --Fotero (talk) 15:20, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Error regarding Continental Airlines crash

c'mon, the crash happened and all people died on feb 12th. The fire lasted into the next day doesnt mean a thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.67.127.101 (talk) 15:33, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

The fire happened on Friday the 13th though, so it has some relevency to this article, and the cause of the fire should be mentioned because otherwise the information would be incomplete. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.108.108.103 (talk) 19:00, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Probability Discussion

Quote in the article: " The 13th day of the month is slightly more likely to be a Friday than any other day of the week."

I felt compelled to check this out this empirically. Here's a macro in Visual Basic for Applications that you can run yourself in MS Excel (or MSWord).

  Sub Friday13()
  Dim ic As Integer, iy As Integer, im As Integer, indx As Integer
  Dim iyFirst As Integer, iyLast As Integer
  Dim WeekDayOfThe13th(7) As Integer
  
  For ic = 16 To 24 'century span
      
      'Zero this out each time through
      For indx = 1 To 7
          WeekDayOfThe13th(indx) = 0
      Next indx
          
      'Year span
      iyFirst = ic * 100 + 1 'start year
      iyLast = iyFirst + 399 'end year
      
      'Check each year
      For iy = iyFirst To iyLast
          'Check each month
          For im = 1 To 12
             'Tally up day of week
             'Weekday function returns 1(Sun) to 7(Sat)
              indx = Weekday(MonthName(im) & " 13," & Str$(iy))
              WeekDayOfThe13th(indx) = WeekDayOfThe13th(indx) + 1
          Next im
      Next iy
          
      'Output the counts
      Debug.Print "  From A.D."; iyFirst; "to"; iyLast; ": ";
      For indx = 1 To 7
          Debug.Print WeekdayName(indx); "="; WeekDayOfThe13th(indx); "  ";
      Next indx
      Debug.Print ""
  
  Next ic
  Stop
  End Sub

We go through a cycle of 400 years. For each year, we run through months 1 to 12, using the MonthName function and "13" to construct the date. We use the Weekday function to get the weekday number, and tally it up.

The results:

 From A.D. 1601 to 2000 : Sunday= 687   Monday= 685   Tuesday= 685   Wednesday= 687   Thursday= 684   Friday= 688   Saturday= 684   
 From A.D. 1701 to 2100 : Sunday= 687   Monday= 685   Tuesday= 685   Wednesday= 687   Thursday= 684   Friday= 688   Saturday= 684   
 From A.D. 1801 to 2200 : Sunday= 687   Monday= 685   Tuesday= 685   Wednesday= 687   Thursday= 684   Friday= 688   Saturday= 684   
 From A.D. 1901 to 2300 : Sunday= 687   Monday= 685   Tuesday= 685   Wednesday= 687   Thursday= 684   Friday= 688   Saturday= 684   
 From A.D. 2001 to 2400 : Sunday= 687   Monday= 685   Tuesday= 685   Wednesday= 687   Thursday= 684   Friday= 688   Saturday= 684   
 From A.D. 2101 to 2500 : Sunday= 687   Monday= 685   Tuesday= 685   Wednesday= 687   Thursday= 684   Friday= 688   Saturday= 684   
 From A.D. 2201 to 2600 : Sunday= 687   Monday= 685   Tuesday= 685   Wednesday= 687   Thursday= 684   Friday= 688   Saturday= 684   
 From A.D. 2301 to 2700 : Sunday= 687   Monday= 685   Tuesday= 685   Wednesday= 687   Thursday= 684   Friday= 688   Saturday= 684   
 From A.D. 2401 to 2800 : Sunday= 687   Monday= 685   Tuesday= 685   Wednesday= 687   Thursday= 684   Friday= 688   Saturday= 684

Q.E.D.WHPratt (talk) 16:59, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Origins of Friday 13th

I think the section is incorrect, there is a well known history

King Philip IV of France found himself deeply in debt to the Knights Templar. So rather than pay off his debts, King Philip simply had the members of the Knights Templar arrested and tortured on October 13, 1307, Friday the 13th. Later Pope Clement, under pressure from King Philip, had the order disbanded, and the Knights Templar disappeared into myth and legend. Ever since October 13, 1307, Friday the 13th has been associated with bad luck.

[2]

It wasn't just because of The Da Vinci code.

Lots of bad things have happened on a "Friday the 13th." Just like lots of bad things have happened on a "Wednesday the 21st" -- doesn't make one more unlucky than the next. The fact is, Friday the 13th hasn't been considered "unlucky" until relatively recently. Choosing some bad thing that happened on a "Friday the 13th" some time in the past doesn't make that event the cause of the superstition. DeanHarding (talk) 00:52, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Historically speaking, there is no other plausible candidate for the origin of the superstition, other than the Templars. As for the absence of evidence, that does not mean there is evidence of absence. Not to mention, even if the superstition originated relatively recently, that does not rule out that it was a reference to the suppression of the Templar Order. tcob44 22:58, 27 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.158.203.31 (talk)

To my knowledge, there is not a single reliable source which says that the Templars are a "plausible candidate" for the origin of the superstition. Wikipedia runs on what sources say, not what people are guessing at. See WP:V and WP:NOR. --Elonka 03:05, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

"To my knowledge..." Are you kidding? There is not one single alternative candidate. Find one and you can change it (again). Until then, please stop insulting the intelligence of the rest of us. Thanks in advance! tcob44 23:39, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Please review WP:V, WP:NOR, WP:NPOV, WP:NPA, and WP:TALK. Jayjg ^(talk) 03:41, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

The burden of proof is on those wishing to add information, not on those wishing to remove it. To say that the superstition originated with the Templars, it is necessary to provide a reliable source which says such a thing. A fictional novel is not a reliable source. And to say "well, logically, <whatever>" is what we call "original research", which is against Wikipedia policies. See Wikipedia:No original research. --Elonka 03:51, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry that logic is not your strong suit. Regardless, the arrest of the Templars is the only single historical date connected to the origin of the Friday the 13th superstition. Not to mention, the Knights Templar are one of the most popular and influential groups in Western history. And you think urbanlegends and snopes can somehow wave a magic wand which "disproves" them as being the origin - recent or not - of this superstition (and fail to provide a single alternative explanation). Please explain how it's been disproven and/or incorrect. BTW- I never cited the Da Vinci Code, I just reworded the text around the link. tcob44 1:03, 28 October 2008 (EST)

As the article already shows, there is no need to connect any historical date to the origin of the superstition, because its origin derives instead from a conflation of the separate superstitions that Fridays are unlucky and the number 13 is unlucky. In addition, the evidence shows that (1) the superstition is not ancient, but goes back only to the 19th century, and (2) even the 19th century references say nothing about the Knights Templar, the perceived association with which must be quite recent. John M Baker (talk) 05:23, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Using the urbanlegends article cited by Elonka and John, I've expanded the history section of this article. This was needed due to the misleading nature of the quotes, specifically ones which implied certainty in an area where, according to the experts, much is based on guesswork. tcob44 6:34 in the am. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.217.42.112 (talk) 10:35, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

--- I dont know the origins of the superstition, but I am pretty sure that it is in writing before the 19th cent In denmark we had an astronomer called Thyge Brahe and in school we was taught that the then king of denmark demanded he made a list of days people should be ekstra carefull as precaution - he made a list based on astology and numerology and had a list with many days - there amongst friday the 13th. This happend in the 15th-something (between 1546 and 1600) and was in writing, but i dont think he was the first though. - Luise --- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.167.173.177 (talk) 22:20, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey John and Elonka. I've improved the article with more foot-noted theories and organized it better. Enjoy.Tcob44 (talk) 04:01, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

_______

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the French revolution culminate on a Friday the 13th with Louis XIII's beheading? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smiley7898 (talk • contribs) 02:13, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editsemiprotected}} The sentence "The next year to have three Friday the 13th dates will be 2015" should be changed to "The next year to have three Friday the 13th dates will be 2012" Check calendar, those date will be in January, April, and July of that year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DarkKnight777 (talk • contribs) 15:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Done Welcome and thanks for pointing this out. Celestra (talk) 16:25, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Pac's death

tupac died friday the 13th after surviving 7 days. Should we add it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BubbleBabis (talk • contribs) 13:13, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Dubious sentence

"One theory suggested by OJ Ivey states that Jesus dies on a Friday and there were 13 people at the last supper." Umm... who is OJ Ivey? Why is there no reference? 96.235.51.78 (talk) 12:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Trivia: full moon and Friday 13th

The remark in the trivia section about Friday 13th tending to occur on full moons (despite today's being close to a new moon)--is there really anything to that, given that there are an average of 1.7 Friday 13ths per year, and you expect many to occur close to a full moon just from random chance. I will admit that it could be something of two separate cycles coinciding for a while, only to diverge later, though this isn't anything exactly notable, as it happens with all phenomena (graph two sine waves of different frequencies and you will see there are times when peaks coincide or are close to coinciding, sometimes for several cycles depending on the frequencies). I'm not sure this really belongs in an encyclopedia. Any thoughts?--Todd 03:01, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree and have removed this text from the article. -- Beland 04:20, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

This perhaps relates to the origins of the superstition. One theory of the origin is that it draws from the Crucifixion. Specifically:

Friday is the day of the Crucifixion, a rather unlucky day for the corporeal Jesus.

13 is the number of Apostles plus Jesus. That is, 13 is the number of people at The Last Supper, and is therefore an unlucky number.

The Last Supper was a Passover Seder. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_last_supper#Possible_relation_with_Passover_Seder)

Passover falls on the 15th of Nissan in the Jewish lunar calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover). Jewish lunar months begin on a New Moon, so the 15th is a Full Moon (plus or minus about 12 hours).

Note that this may also be the source of the that a Full Moon is considered unlucky (e.g., when werewolves come out, "lunacy") —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.237.236.15 (talk) 15:08, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Specific phobia names

Considering that names of individual phobias (i.e. friggatriskadekaphobia) really only exist for flavor at this point, and are not used in clinical or scientific settings, is the section discussing it really necessary here? Does it serve some other purpose which I am overlooking? 72.44.161.138 (talk) 20:15, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

External links

[http://www.facepaint.ws/Friday-The-13th.htm About Friday 13, who celebrates it and how. Not bad luck but, lucky day to some.]

• Your Unlucky Day: The religious roots of triskaidekaphobia
• Some don't count on Lucky 13 - Via Magazine
• Calendar showing 13 years of Friday 13th
• A Bad-Luck Guide to Friday the 13th - image slideshow by Life magazine

|}

67.203.175.146 (talk) 21:16, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

It seems to me that you just copied the text of the article to this talk page, with the addition of the text "If you add up the numbers in "212.35" it equals 13." in the third paragraph of the occurrence section. While this is an amusing coincidence, possibly with some mathematical basis, it is not worthy of inclusion in the article unless you can supply a source indicating how this is significant. Intelligentsium 22:05, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 67.203.175.146, 13 August 2010

{{tl|editsemiprotected}}

request denied, does not seem to be relevant to the topic. Skier Dude (talk 02:04, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Extended content
Friday the 13th occurs when the thirteenth day of a month falls on a Friday, which superstition holds to be a day of bad luck. In the Gregorian calendar, this day occurs at least once, but at most three times a year. Any month's 13th day will fall on a Friday if the month starts on a Sunday.

Edit request from 68.6.226.90, 13 August 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Black Friday being referred to as a day for stock market crashes needs to be deleted. Black Friday is the moniker for the Friday after Thanksgiving, known as a big shopping day. Black Tuesday is the day of the infamous stock market crash.

68.6.226.90 (talk) 18:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

You're free to edit the article. It's not protected anymore.  Davtra  ^(talk) 07:15, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

What About The British?

If loosing is a motive and/or incentive to consider 13 to be unlucky, well, since they lost the Revolutionary War to 13 Colonies, wouldn't that huge loss also add impetus to the superstition, regardless of the day of the week? So on the flip-side then, 13 should be good luck if you are a Citizen of the United States of America, right? So do the British consider 13 to be especially bad for them or not? I've not met that many fellow Americans who behave as if 13 is lucky though. So far I've only met one other. LeoStarDragon1 (talk) 01:15, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Knights Templar?

Timmyjjones, you have recently expanded the article greatly with carefully collected information about the Knights Templar. I'm a bit hesitant to delete all this work, but don't you think this information would be better suited to the Knights Templar article proper?

After all, it isn't even clear which role the arrest of the Templars played in creating the myth of Friday 13th, so I think one paragraph or so about the suspected connection should be enough. All the rest (like the gory torture details, if you're into this) could go in the Templars' article which is linked from here anyway. After all, people interested in a detailled account of the Templars' arrest are more likely to look up their article first, rather than checking out "Friday 13th"...

What's your take on it? -- Syzygy (talk) 11:44, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

2009

ok this may already be apparent but this occurs 3 times in 2009......February, March and November 86.7.165.144 (talk) 21:15, 28 January 2009 (UTC) It sorta is, I am doing a speech on Friday 13th. So i need to pay attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.222.144 (talk) 03:44, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Italians opinion on Friday the 13th

My Italian Nonna has always told me that in Italy, the number 13 is lucky and therefore Friday the 13th is supposed to be a lucky day. Can anyone confirm this? yes i can that is no so true in many ways but is also non true in a coulChosen One 41 19:51, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Internet sources seem to disagree on this point, though it does seem 17 is considered unlucky in Italy. -- Beland 04:25, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I find Friday 13th to be good luck because I was born on Friday 13th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.222.144 (talk) 03:55, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Introduction

"Any month's 13th day will fall on a Friday if the month starts on a Sunday." [3]

Wow, that is some crazy paradox stuff. At the same time hard to believe and yet utterly fascinating to a humble mind like mine. Is there any proof for this (some mathematicians/calender scientists out there)? If someone has details on this, I'd appreciate an entire section of the article dedicated to this fact; but my main concern is that I find it to be not quite adaequate as one of the first sentences or part of the introduction, respectively. (Srsly, you got to be kidding!) -- 91.36.253.210 (talk) 21:22, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Fallacy in 'Occurence' proof

You can't make a 400-year cycle out of cycles of 28 years - 28 doesn't go into 400. This means that the cycle will always show a bias towards some day of the week or other. Deleting this section pending a counter-proof. JustThisGuy 18:02, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Restored pending your demonstration that your "counter-proof" is not just original research. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 05:54, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Wow, thats silly. Here.. 400 / 28 = 14.2857143 source: http://74.125.45.100/search?q=400%2F28 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaphraud (talk • contribs) 05:42, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

The cycle is indeed 400 years. It is not composed of 28 year cycles because the leap years mess up the 28 year cycles. Yes, there are a lot of 28 year cycles, but there are also some 12 year cycles. 216.167.246.215 (talk) 00:29, 26 May 2008 (UTC) warren AT gaebel DOT ca

The entire 'Occurrence' section is full of grammatical and mathematical errors. It should be rewritten. --76.224.76.16 23:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

The statement that the 13th of the month is more likely to be a Friday is incorrect. In the 28-year cycle there are 48 Friday the 13ths and 336 13ths, which 1 out of 7. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.206.20.203 (talk) 17:34, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm VietNamese but do anyone know why Friday th 13th is so popular ?

Just is and its also the namne of the longest running successful Horror franchise, Friday the 13th. which made the character Jason Voorhees, one of the worlds most know Legends of cinema history. Ki Ki Ki ma ma ma. User:rakarno

It appears this page has been vandalized:

"Glen Jackson, while playing on a Friday night coed league in Fort Worth, Texas broke his uterus. After recovering from the injury he vowed not to play on another Friday the 13th."

13:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The Wikipedia page says, "Every year has at least one and at most three Fridays the 13th, with 688 occurrences during each 400-year Gregorian cycle (146,097 days).[citation needed]" I disagree with the "citation needed" comment. This is a simple fact that can be verified by listing the days of the week that each month fall on over a 400 year period, and then counting the Sundays. Of course, there are shortcuts so you don't have to do ALL the work that this implies. However, the point remains: This is a fact that is easily verifiable and therefore should not require a citation. For those of you who do require a citation, how about using the Gregorian Calendar page in Wikipedia as your citation. It is all explained so nicely there. 216.167.246.215 (talk) 00:29, 26 May 2008 (UTC) Warren AT gaebel DOT ca

Removed edit

Three years had three friday the 13ths: In the years 1984 and 2012 (to fall on Jan., April and July), and the years 1998 and 2009 (on Feb., March and Nov.). Also to note the superstitions and doomsday prophecies surrounding the years 1984 (based on the book 1984 (novel) by Sir George Orwell written in 1948 or 1949, 1998 and 2012 (the doomsday on the Maya calendar was expected to come on December 21, 2012, which is also a popular belief among the New Age Movement since the 1970's). But to American history, 1984 and 1998 were highly positive years of economic booms and strong pride in patriotic feeling among Americans, plus high ratings of US presidents Ronald Reagan (1984) and Bill Clinton (1998). 71.102.24.62 (talk) 08:24, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Knights Templar

THE 700 YEAR OLD POSSIBLE CAUSE OF FRIDAY THE 13TH BAD LUCK ASSOCIATION: It may also be connected to the 'Poor Knights of Christ' or simply the Knights Templar , a group of "Warrior" Knights from the 12th through 14th centuries who at dawn on Friday, October 13, 1307, were simultaneously arrested by agents of King Philip and later tortured into admitting heresy within the Order. Over 100 charges were issued against them, identical to charges earlier levied against them by Pope Boniface VIII in a Papal Edict. In response to public pressure, along with more bullying from King Philip, Pope Clement issued the bull Pastoralis Praeeminentiae, which instructed all Christian monarchs in Europe to arrest all Templars and seize their assetss on FRIDAY THE 13TH, 1307. Their leader and Grand Master Jacques DeMolay was later burned at the stake as a heretic, THOUGH WAS BELIVED BY MANY TO BE INNOCENT OF ALL CHAGRES. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.211.56.146 (talk) 20:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and Dan Brown definitely popularized that story in The Da Vinci Code, but it's not true. "Friday the 13th" as a concept, didn't start until around 1900. Much of what you're saying about the Knights Templar is more or less true though, though the stuff about Pope Boniface is backwards. It wasn't charges issued against the Templars by Boniface, it was charges issued against Boniface by Philip. He was one bad guy, Philip. --Elonka 20:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

The statement about Free Masons is a bit confusing. Is their ritual linking Fri 13 to the killing of the Knights older than Dan Brown?--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 12:52, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Friday

Friday, if counted in 2 weeks, is actually the 13th day of those two weeks, and therefore could be why Friday is unlucky — Preceding unsigned comment added by F1r3f7y (talk • contribs) 04:03, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Badly Written

"There is also a tale in England, probably apocryphal, that, in the early 19th Century, the Admiralty wished to challenge the seamen's superstition against Fridays. Consequently, they decided to build a vessel to be called H.M.S. Friday; her keel was laid on a Friday, she was launched on a Friday and set sail on her maiden voyage on a Friday 13th...neither ship nor crew were ever heard of again!"

Ought to be rephrased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.110.157 (talk) 12:46, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

"a tale... probably apocryphal"! - ought to be forgotten altogether, it is a myth!! See HMS Friday. This is an encyclopedia for god's sake. Richard Avery (talk) 08:19, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, erm, it has been forgotten - good show. Richard Avery (talk) 08:23, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Is Friday the 13th bad for your health?

Moved from article:

However, a 1993 study in the British Medical Journal that compared the ratio of traffic accidents between Friday the 6th and Friday the 13th stated that there is a significant increase in traffic-related accidents on Friday the 13th.

This seems like quite an extraordinary claim! I could not find any information about the article (not even an abstract available online) and have found no other studies suggesting this. Do you have access to the article and think it is worthy of being included? Please post a response here. Cheers, — sligocki (talk) 18:24, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Inconsistent right from the very start

The first line (currently) says "there is no written evidence for a "Friday the 13th" superstition before the 19th century" and then just 10 lines or so further down it says "Friday has been considered an unlucky day at least since the 14th century's The Canterbury Tales". Which is it to be? As far as I know, The Canterbury Tales was "written" rather than being an audiobook. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.155.164.185 (talk) 11:19, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Fridays have long been considered unlucky, but a Friday the 13th was not considered more unlucky than any other Friday. John M Baker (talk) 14:09, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Rossini

The text claims that an 1869 biography of Rossini contains the following rather gnomic passage:

Rossini was surrounded to the last by admiring and affectionate friends; Why Friday the 13th Is Unlucky

Leaving aside the fact that this conjunction of sentences appears to be an unintelligible non sequitur, I've looked at the 1869 edition of the Rossini biography and I can't find the passage in question. It reads like one of those chapter summaries typically placed in the contents pages of 19th century biographies. However, it's not part of the chapter summary in the edition I looked at. The actual passage about his death reads as follows:

He was surrounded to the last by admiring friends; and if it be true that, like so many Italians, he regarded Fridays as an unlucky day and thirteen as an unlucky number, it is remarkable that one Friday 13th of November he died. (p.340)

Note, he doesn't say Rossini's death was somehow linked to making Friday 13th unlucky, just that Rossini himself may have thought Fridays were unlucky and 13s were unlucky, so it was doubly unlucky. Paul B (talk) 16:42, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

For goodness sake, somebody has to die on Friday 13th and some of them will be famous. Almost everybody in Italy at that time would have been superstitious so it is not surprising Rossini was! Rossini's death on that date was an interesting and unlikely chance not doubly unlucky. Richard Avery (talk) 19:25, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

So what's your point? No-one is saying that Rossini died because it was Friday 13th. The passage merely provides a vivid illustration that fridays and 13s were both considered unlucky at the time, so yes, it was considered "doubly unlucky". Paul B (talk) 13:41, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Adding Events on Friday 13th

What exactly is the purpose of adding to the list of "events" in this article? It is entirely meaningless unless some sort of comparison is made to the amount of bad events that happen on other days/dates. On the other hand why is there no list showing good or fortunate events that have occurred on Friday the 13th to demonstrate that its bad luck connotations is just a myth. The senseless cherry picking of events does not add to the credibility of the article or its purpose. Indeed the purpose of the article is in danger of being lost under the welter of subjective crap being added (some of it twice!!). Parts of the article need cleaning up or out and a much more objective veiwpoint adopted. Richard Avery (talk) 19:21, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

These events are here because people are interested in them. There is no page for Wednesday the 28th and its events because there is no general interest in them. I make no argument that bad things are more likely to happen on Friday the 13th than any other day. But there is interest in things happening on Friday the 13th. It is a cultural phenomenon. Movies have been made about it. It is a longstanding tradition/superstition. Even people who are not superstitious are unlikely to pass Friday the 13th without mentioning it. If you set out to prove that Friday the 13th is just another day, I suspect you will succeed, but that won't stop people from noticing when Friday the 13th arrives.Bellczar (talk) 00:35, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I see your point. So we must not let the facts get in the way of 'a cultural phenomenon'. I guess your asking me to suspend belief for an unproven myth. It's all rubbish really but let's pretend it's real. A bit like homeopathy, religion or Jedward. At the final cut it's all down to a bit of subjective fun. I guess WP has to have it's bright (or dark) spots. Richard Avery (talk) 07:13, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

I am surprise by this result because in Italy 13 is a lucky number; the match of Friday 13 is Friday 17 with the same supersticious aspects, more evident in South Italy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.121.158 (talk) 16:36, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

After three years with a sourcing tag, I've removed the section. I reviewed the given sources, and none of them we of sufficient quality to indicate that this collection of events merited inclusion here. To develop such a list, we need some secondary source which establishes that some set of events were particularly relevant to the superstitions surrounding the day. That particular movies were released on this day is the sort of information that belongs on an individual movie page, not here. aprock (talk) 02:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

good man Aprock!! Richard Avery (talk) 08:23, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

"International References" Section Seems Fishy.

The said section has no references listed. I couldn't find any info backing up the listed dates for unlucky dates in other countries. I put in a disputed content tag. If anyone can find valid references matching the information given, add them and remove the disputed content tag. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.21.170.130 (talk) 21:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Text copied from article

Following text merely copied from article by IP editor.

Extended content

Phobia The fear of Friday the 13th is called friggatriskaidekaphobia, frigga meaning "Friday" and triskaidekaphobia (or paraskevidekatriaphobia) being a word derived from the concatenation of the Greek words Paraskeví (Παρασκευή, meaning "Friday"), and dekatreís (δεκατρείς, meaning "thirteen") attached to phobía (φοβία, from phóbos, φόβος, meaning "fear"). The word was derived in 1911 and first appeared in a mainstream source in 1953. History According to folklorists, there is no written evidence for a "Friday the 13th" superstition before the 19th century. The earliest known documented reference in English occurs in an 1869 biography of Gioachino Rossini: [Rossini] was surrounded to the last by admiring and affectionate friends; and if it be true that, like so many other Italians, he regarded Friday as an unlucky day, and thirteen as an unlucky number, it is remarkable that on Friday, the 13th of November, he died. However, some folklore is passed on through oral traditions. In addition, "determining the origins of superstitions is an inexact science, at best. In fact, it's mostly guesswork." Consequently, several theories have been proposed about the origin of the Friday the 13th superstition. One theory states that it is a modern amalgamation of two older superstitions: that thirteen is an unlucky number and that Friday is an unlucky day. In numerology, the number twelve is considered the number of completeness, as reflected in the twelve months of the year, twelve signs of the zodiac, twelve hours of the clock, twelve tribes of Israel, twelve Apostles of Jesus, twelve gods of Olympus, etc., whereas the number thirteen was considered irregular, transgressing this completeness. There is also a superstition, thought by some to derive from the Last Supper or a Norse myth, that having thirteen people seated at a table will result in the death of one of the diners. Friday has been considered an unlucky day at least since the 14th century's The Canterbury Tales, and many other professions have regarded Friday as an unlucky day to undertake journeys or begin new projects. Black Friday has been associated with stock market crashes and other disasters since the 1800s. It has also been suggested that Friday has been considered an unlucky day because, according to Christian scripture and tradition, Jesus was crucified on a Friday. One theory suggested by OJ Ivey states that Jesus dies on a Friday and there were 13 people at the last supper. On the other hand, another theory by author Charles Panati, one of the leading authorities on the subject of "Origins" maintains that the superstition can be traced back to ancient myth: The actual origin of the superstition, though, appears also to be a tale in Norse mythology. Friday is named for Frigga, the free-spirited goddess of love and fertility. When Norse and Germanic tribes converted to Christianity, Frigga was banished in shame to a mountaintop and labeled a witch. It was believed that every Friday, the spiteful goddess convened a meeting with eleven other witches, plus the devil — a gathering of thirteen — and plotted ill turns of fate for the coming week. For many centuries in Scandinavia, Friday was known as "Witches' Sabbath." Another theory about the origin of the superstition traces the event to the arrest of the legendary Knights Templar. According to one expert: The Knights Templar were a monastic military order founded in Jerusalem in 1118 C.E., whose mission was to protect Christian pilgrims during the Crusades. Over the next two centuries, the Knights Templar became extraordinarily powerful and wealthy. Threatened by that power and eager to acquire their wealth, King Philip secretly ordered the mass arrest of all the Knights Templar in France on Friday, October 13, 1307 - Friday the 13th. The connection between the superstition and the Knights Templar was popularized in the 2003 novel The Da Vinci Code. However, some experts think that it is relatively recent and is a modern-day invention. For example, the superstition is rarely found before the 20th century, when it became extremely common. One author, noting that references are all but nonexistent before 1907 but frequently seen thereafter, has argued that its popularity derives from the publication that year of Thomas W. Lawson's popular novel Friday, the Thirteenth, in which an unscrupulous broker takes advantage of the superstition to create a Wall Street panic on a Friday the 13th. A further theory goes back to a combination of Paganism, Christianity, and the Battle of Hastings. For many, the number 13 was considered a lucky number (such as 13 lunar cycles each year), but with the efforts of Christianity attempting to degrade all things Pagan, they promoted 13 as an unlucky number, with Friday thus also being considered a bad day of the week. However, on Friday the 13th of October 1066, the decision was made by King Harold II to go to battle on Saturday the 14th of October, rather than allow his troops a day of rest (despite his army having made a long and arduous march from a battle near York just 3 weeks earlier). This decision in going to battle before the English troops were rested (the English lost and King Harold was killed) further established Friday the 13th as an unlucky day. In Spanish-speaking countries, instead of Friday, Tuesday the 13th is considered a day of bad luck. For example, the Fall of Constantinople, when the city fell to the Ottomans, a fact which marked the end of the Byzantine Empire, happened Tuesday, May 29th, 1453, that is why the Greeks consider Tuesday to be an unlucky day. Social impact According to the Stress Management Center and Phobia Institute in Asheville, North Carolina, an estimated 17 to 21 million people in the United States are affected by a fear of this day. Some people are so paralyzed by fear that they avoid their normal routines in doing business, taking flights or even getting out of bed. "It's been estimated that [US]$800 or $900 million is lost in business on this day". Despite this, representatives for both Delta and Continental Airlines say that their airlines don't suffer from any noticeable drop in travel on those Fridays. Rate of accidents There are conflicting studies about the risk of accidents on Friday the 13th. The Dutch Centre for Insurance Statistics (CVS) on June 12, 2008, stated that "fewer accidents and reports of fire and theft occur when the 13th of the month falls on a Friday than on other Fridays, because people are preventatively more careful or just stay home. Statistically speaking, driving is slightly safer on Friday the 13th, at least in the Netherlands; in the last two years, Dutch insurers received reports of an average 7,800 traffic accidents each Friday; but the average figure when the 13th fell on a Friday was just 7,500. However, a 1993 study in the British Medical Journal that compared the ratio of traffic accidents between Friday the 6th and Friday the 13th stated that there is a significant increase in traffic-related accidents on Friday the 13th. There are indications that there are more accidents on Fridays than average weekdays (irrespective of the date) probably because of alcohol consumption. Therefore it is less relevant for this purpose to compare Friday the 13th with, say, Tuesday the 13th. Occurrence The following months have a Friday the 13th: Month Years Dominical letter January 2006, 2012, 2017, 2023 A, AG February 2004, 2009, 2015, 2026 D, DC March 2009, 2015, 2020, 2026 D, ED April 2001, 2007, 2012, 2018 G, AG May 2005, 2011, 2016, 2022 B, CB June 2003, 2008, 2014, 2025 E, FE July 2001, 2007, 2012, 2018 G, AG August 2004, 2010, 2021, 2027 C, DC September 2002, 2013, 2019, 2024 F, GF October 2006, 2017, 2023, 2028 A, BA November 2009, 2015, 2020, 2026 D, ED December 2002, 2013, 2019, 2024 F, GF The following years have Fridays the 13th in these months: Year Months Dominical letter 2001 April, July G 2002 September, December F 2003 June E 2004 February, August DC 2005 May B 2006 January, October A 2007 April, July G 2008 June FE 2009 February, March, November D 2010 August C 2011 May B 2012 January, April, July AG 2013 September, December F 2014 June E 2015 February, March, November D 2016 May CB 2017 January, October A 2018 April, July G 2019 September, December F 2020 March, November ED 2021 August C 2022 May B 2023 January, October A 2024 September, December GF 2025 June E 2026 February, March, November D 2027 August C 2028 October BA 2029 April, July G This sequence, here given for 2001–2029, repeats every 28 years from 1901 to 2099. The months with a Friday the 13th are determined by the Dominical letter (G, F, GF, etc.) of the year. Every month that begins on a Sunday will contain a Friday the 13th, and there is at least one Friday the 13th in every calendar year. The longest period that can occur without a Friday the 13th is fourteen months, either from July to September the following common year (e.g. between 2001-2002 and 2012-13), or from August to October the following leap year (e.g. between 2027-28). Patterns for non-leap years: First month occurring Second month Third month January October February March November April July May June August September December Patterns for leap years: First month occurring Second month Third month January April July February August March November May June September December October Each Gregorian 400-year cycle contains 146,097 days (365 × 400 = 146,000 normal days plus 97 leap days), 146,097 / 7 = 20,871 weeks, and 400 × 12 = 4,800 months. Thus, each cycle contains the same pattern of days of the week (and thus the same pattern of Fridays the 13th), but no day of the month up to the 28th can occur the same number of times on each day of the week (because 4,800 is not divisible by 7). The 13th day of the month is slightly more likely to be a Friday than any other day of the week. On average, there is a Friday the 13th once every 212.35 (212 and 241/688) days. If you add up the numbers in "212.35" it equals 13. The distribution of the 13th day over the 4,800 months is as follows: Day of the week Number of occurrences Sunday 687 Monday 685 Tuesday 685 Wednesday 687 Thursday 684 Friday 688 Saturday 684 Planned events on Fridays the 13th Some events are intentionally scheduled for Friday the 13th for dramatic effect. They include: Resident Evil 5 was released in the US and UK on Friday March 13, 2009. SAW - The Ride at Thorpe Park, UK was opened on March 13, 2009. Coincidentally the ride was marred by "teething problems" for the first few days after it was opened Black Sabbath's eponymous debut album was released in the UK on Friday, February 13, 1970. The Opening ceremony of the Athens Olympic Games took place on Friday, August 13, 2004. The 13th book in A Series of Unfortunate Events was released on Friday, October 13, 2006 by Lemony Snicket, also known as novelist Daniel Handler. Four of the twelve films in the Friday the 13th series, including the most recent (reboot of a second film), were released on a Friday the 13th. The sequel to the reboot is planned to be released on Friday September 13, 2013. Joss Whedon's show Dollhouse aired its pilot on February 13, 2009. Every Friday the 13th thousands of bikers ride to the small town of Port Dover Ontario, Canada. Boston Lee Day is celebrated every Friday the 13th. Participants gather to enjoy the Boston Lee Drink for which this day is named. The popular Browser-based RPG Dragonfable has an undead war every Friday the 13th, with a common drop being the hockey mask all of the monsters wear. The 2009 film 2012 was released on Friday November 13, 2009. Stuntman Sam Patch scheduled a 125-foot jump into the Genesee River on Friday, November 13, 1829, his largest jump to date. The jump killed him. Events on Friday the 13th Due to the large number of events that happen in the world, a similar list could be compiled for any combination of day of the month and day of the week. Events that have been notable for being linked to the concept of Friday the 13th include: Hurricane Charley made landfall in south Florida on Friday, August 13, 2004. The "Friday the 13th Storm" struck Buffalo, New York on Friday, October 13, 2006. The asteroid 99942 Apophis will make a close encounter with Earth, which had been thought may have been closer than the orbits of communication satellites, on Friday, April 13, 2029. The Andes Plane Crash of 1972 occurred on Friday, October 13, 1972. References

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.203.175.146 (talk) 21:16, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Only Bad For Egyptians

Nothing to be afraid of, unless you are a Pagan firstborn in Egypt in 1250 BC when Moses was gathering Israel for their famous Exodus. Jewish days change at sunset. Non-Jewish days change at midnight. God sent the angel of death to kill the firstborns on the 14th of Nissan (Hebrew calendar) just after sunset.

But for the Egyptians it was still the 13th until midnight, a Friday. Hence, it was a bad day for Egypt.

Only 'God's people' knew what was coming (through Moses) and in faith, prepared for the takedown by smearing lambs blood on their doors. Known as "Passover" to Jews, that great day is one of their most sacred observances...'coincidentally' the same exact time of year that "Good Friday" is being observed; not for the blood on the door that saved through faith, but for the blood of the Lamb on the cross that the Christians believe saves through faith. A few obscure places to research

• http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_sijs/bl_44_pesachsatnite.htm
• http://www.varchive.org/
• http://www.khouse.org/

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.213.93.143 (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Edit Request

The calendar dates are wrong there was no Friday the 13th in March of 1992 it was March of 1991 I know this because my daughter was born of Friday March 13, 1991. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.226.184.94 (talk) 13:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Online calendars, such as this one, indicate that March 13, 1991, was a Wednesday and March 13, 1992, was a Friday. John M Baker (talk) 14:37, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Needs Re-Writing

"In Spanish-speaking countries, instead of Friday, Tuesday the 13th is considered a day of bad luck.[13] For example, the Fall of Constantinople, when the city fell to the Ottomans, a fact which marked the end of the Byzantine Empire, happened Tuesday, May 29th, 1453, that is why the Greeks consider Tuesday to be an unlucky day.[13]"

This starts talking about Spanish-speaking countries and then goes to the Fall of Constantinople as the example. I don't know much about Spanish culture and history, but an actual historic example from Spain dealing with Tuesday the 13th would be appropriate. Either the Greek example needs to be split off into another paragraph and introduce a Spanish example or the whole thing needs to be reworded so it doesn't throw the reader. 76.240.198.49 (talk) 04:35, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Amen. In common with every other WP article, if it doesn't apply to the topic at hand, it doesn't belong. Somebody can write a "Tuesday the 17th" article if it strikes their fancy. Kortoso (talk) 22:13, 13 September 2013 (UTC)