Talk:Friedrich Paulus/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

This page should be retained. The other page Friedrich von Paulus has the wrong name. This is per von Manstein's memoirs.

Bohemian corporal?

The Battle of Stalingrad wiki article puts Paulus' statement as "I have no intention of shooting myself for that Bavarian corporal."

Whether or not that quote is accurate, I do not know. But bohemian (used in this article) sounds wrong.

Hitler was commonly referred to as the "Bohemian Corporal" by the German generals because he was from Austria-Hungary (Bohemia is the area around Prague) and was a corporal in World War One.Historian932 (talk) 03:03, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Historically - and especially in the context of WW2 - Bohemia (Böhmen) refers to a part of then Czechoslovakia.

And it does not seem likely that the other meaning of the word in english, "a person, as an artist or writer, who lives and acts free of regard for conventional rules and practices" would be fitting here either... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.115.202.74 (talk) 15:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

But that's exactly what Hitler did, or at least aspired to, prior to power. In the early days of the Nazi Party, some members referred to themselves as "armed Bohemians" ; this is discussed by Jonathan Meades in Gerry Building. It sounds to me that this use is most likely what Paulus intended, though I'm going to move the wikilink to the disambig. page to reflect the uncertaintyFrFintonStack (talk) 18:53, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

For "Bohemian Corporal" see the German Wikipedia: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Böhmischer_Gefreiter

The German Reichspräsident Hindenburg called Hitler "Böhmischer Gefreiter" as a form of disesteeming him. However, he confused Braunau in eatern Bohemia and Braunau in Austria. --84.163.102.209 (talk) 19:21, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

William Craig in 'Enemy at the Gates' attributes the quote to General Pfeiffer, that he owned no subservience to a Bohemian corporal skunk'. I do not have Beevor's book with me but I can verify the quote is not from Paulus.Withallintentsandpurposes (talk) 18:33, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Surrender?

Please see the discussion at the Wik page on the Battle of Stalingrad. It seems "capture" would be the better word.05:47, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Inspector of Police

According to William Craig's Enemy At The Gates, Paulus did become an inspector of police. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.241.224.177 (talk) 03:22, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

Promotion and Surrender Date

According to the Documentary "The World At War", Friedrich Paulus surrendered the same day that he was promoted by Hitler, and not the day after, as this article currently suggests. Is there a way to verify whether he surrendered the day after his promotion? Spock35 (talk) 23:31, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Bohemian corporal

"Paulus, who as a Roman Catholic was opposed to suicide, said of Hitler's expectation: "I have no intention of shooting myself for that Bohemian corporal."" Can we have a source for Paulus saying this? Frankly I don't believe it and I will delete it unless a reputable source is provided very soon. Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 10:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Redirection

I suggest that we redirect the name of this article to Friedrich Paul. The Latin name Paulus (Paulos in Greek), first made famous by the apostle, is always anglicised into Paul, even for contemporaries of this general, such as Paul I, except when it appears alongside other unanglified Latin names. Even relatively obscure characters such as Paul the Deacon or Paul of Aegina are presented in the anglicised form.

While it is true that the general is commonly referred to as Paulus, this use is apparently biased; English-speaking authors would apparently have been reluctant to give a Nazi general the same name as the founder of Christianity.

Wikipedia rules state that "The neutral point of view (NPOV) requires that where multiple perspectives on a topic have been published by reliable sources", but this is not applicable in this case, as utterly few sources published in the English language are unbiased, as they all were published in countries who fought against the Nazis. Paulus' name was made famous during WWII and later historians writing in English have followed that standard. Recognizing the lack of NPOV sources, Wikipedia would have to settle for a consistent standard. Please note that this suggestion does not in the least mean that I support any of the demented ideas of the Nazis. I merely claim that the names of their minions should be treated according to a proper unbiased standard. Sponsianus (talk) 18:44, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• Your examples do not apply because they relate to the anglicisation of first names, not last names, and these are the common form that these individuals are referred to in Enlgish according to naming policy. I cannot see any policy that would support changing this name. All Enlgish sources that I know of list his name as Paulus, and I find your reasoning for this quite simply bizarre. We do not call Caspar David Friedrich "Caspar David Frederick," we do not call Matthias Grünewald "Matthew Greenforest," we do not call Giuseppe Verdi "Joseph Green" and we should not anglicise "Friderich Paulus" to "Frederick Paul."
  • Well, the examples you give are all German names in contemporary forms. "Paulus" on the contrary is not - German names never end in -us. We are dealing with a family who named itself after the apostle Paul in what is essentially Latin. In doing so, they follow a number of precedents, all of which have been anglicised into Paul. If we assume that a person is christened "Johannes Paulus", the Latin form of the former Pope's name, shouldn't that person be renamed "John Paul" to make this link apparent? If some Latin names are shortcut, I think this should be done consistently. However, it may be that the name "Paulus" does not belong to an old aristocratic family as I first thought, given his marriage to an aristocratic woman. In that case, the case may be weaker.Sponsianus (talk) 21:48, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• If we're going to change it, what do we do about the "von" he was entitled to, but almost never seems to get in English sources...? (I don't see him being called Fred von Pohl...) TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 07:23, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

• A quote from a reference #76 in "Absolute War: Soviet Russia in the Second World War" by Chris Bellamy ISBN 978-0375410864 "He was not (as often, erroneously, described), a ‘von’. He came from a relatively humble Prussian family. I am grateful to Dr Beatrice Heuser, now director of the Military Archives at Potsdam, professional colleague and scholar, and Paulus’s niece, for her confirmation of this fact" Bwheatley (talk) 16:29, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

• What was his name recorded as in official documents such as baptism, Heer, legal, etc.? It seems to me that would be the definitive and obvious answer, yet nobody discussing this topic has even raised the point. Cubelodyte (talk) 19:20, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Göring Quote

I don't see what a catty snipe from a Nazi official contributes to reader understanding of Paulus. Why is it here? Cubelodyte (talk) 19:08, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Dyatlenko.jpg

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Strange abbreviation

The following month he was named deputy chief of the German General Staff (OQu I). - what is OQu I? Nazgul02 (talk) 09:09, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

It stands for Oberquartiermeister I or quartermaster general, essentially the third-highest army commander at the time. ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 12:59, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

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Adam quote

The lengthy quotation from Adam looks to me to be a breach of WP:COPYRIGHT. Yes, we can quote but not usually at this length. I think it will have to be cut. - Sitush (talk) 18:46, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Citation needed for non-nobility?

How can anybody ask for a citation of something inexistent? I delete the tag. Wschroedter (talk) 08:11, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Update to the voiced version of the article?

Wouldn't it be the time for an update to the voiced-version of this article? It was recorded in 2017, and while listening I struggled to follow in some places, due to changes to the page. Speedbird03 (talk) 11:58, 9 January 2020 (UTC)