Talk:Fritz Haarmann

Clarification and citation needed: " in accordance with German practice"

Resolved

The second paragraph in the lead section states that Haarmann's "honorary rights of citizenship" were revoked "in accordance with German practice".

Once the issues surrounding the term "honorary rights of citizenship" have been resolved (see separate talk page item above), further clarification is needed as to what "German practice" is being referred to here.

What is this "German practice" exactly?

And was it solely a German practice during the Weimar Republic?

Or has it has lasted through to the present (thereby being present in Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany and today's Federal Republic)?

Whatever the answer is – it will also require citations. Mongrelmusings (talk) 01:54, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I am sure it is, at least loosely, mentioned in the Monsters of Weimar book (obv. itself translated from German originally). Have not read it for eight or more years (156+ pages). I believe it sources from these edits from August 2018. The editor (I'm assuming a German individual), cites "Bürgerliche Ehrenrechte" as his/her outline for these adjustments? What do you think, Mongrelmusings?--Kieronoldham (talk) 02:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks you very much for your response, as well as for digging through the edit history! Upon clicking on your link to to the outline, I sadly can't detect the mention of "Bürgerliche Ehrenrechte".

However, knowing that it might have been the original term does help somewhat! According to bpb (Germany's "Federal Agency for Civic Education", source link below) and the German Wikipedia page on "Bürgerliche Ehrenrechte", the term describes a German citizen's right to vote, to be elected, and to carry out certain public (voluntary) duties.

Now – to get us closer to an accurate translation, we could do with someone well-versed in law to confirm whether all of these rights fall under civil rights...

BpB source: https://www.bpb.de/kurz-knapp/lexika/politiklexikon/17381/ehrenrechte-buergerliche/ Mongrelmusings (talk) 02:30, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

No worries, Mongrelmusings. The actual edit description from the editor in question is here (in between the revisions within the link I prv. added). Unless you know whom or where to take this query I think we may be in for a very long wait for this area of observation and concern to be resolved on this article. Maybe we should resolve this somehow ourselves?--Kieronoldham (talk) 02:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

If you see it correctly, you have meanwhile simply deleted the sentence discussed in this and the preceding section? I think that's a good solution – considering that he was executed, it hardly matters much if he lost his voting rights for the few months prior to that. Gawaon (talk) 18:41, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I did ping the user who tagged the lede section, Gawaon, but got no reply after three or so days, so I assume that the issue was to be left for someone "well-versed" in contemporary German law to address. It is hardly pertinent info. to the case itself anyhow. As I said prv., I would be very surprised if anyone would bother addressing the issue for a very long time.--Kieronoldham (talk) 22:42, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Great to see this is resolved now! Agree that this is the most pragmatic solution. Thanks to both of you for your efforts on this, @Kieronoldham and @Gawaon! I'll tag the original comment as resolved, so as to help future visitors navigate the talk page better. Mongrelmusings (talk) 00:40, 16 February 2024 (UTC)