Talk:Gaahl/Archive 1

Photo again

Nevertheless - could anyone put the pic into the right direction? THANKS! ILSA

Bona Fide Satanist

Having watched the 2005 documentary Metal: A Headbanger's Journey where Gaahl is interviewed about the Norwegian Black Metal scene of the early 1990s and his opinions on what took place then, church burnings and so forth, the following transcipt leaves no doubt in my mind that to the extent that he can be believed to speak his true mind, Gaahl is most definitely a Satanist, and not merely using Satanic symbolism and imagery to attack Christianity:

The interview takes place in a dark, candlelit cellar-like bar. The lighting on his face is theatrically dramatic with deep shadows leaving his eyes in the dark

—What is the primary ideology or primary ideas that fuel Gorgoroth's music?

Long pause, with Gaahl apparently contemplating intensely the significance of the answer he is about to give. His entire posture is strongly portraying him as someone who takes his mission as serious as anyone could take any subject – he nervously strokes the stem of his wine glass, his stare is joyless and piercing.

—Satan. (Gaahl lifts up the glass, drinking the last of the fluid, retaining his piercing stare at the interviewer.)

—What does Satan embody or what does he represent?

—Freedom.

After a pause and from another camera angle.

—I think whether we like it or not, Black Metal in Norway is known for a string of events that happened in the early 1990s around a series of arsons. I'm interested to know your thoughts on the actions of those events, the motivations behind these events, whether you agree with them, whether you disagree.

—Church burnings and all these things are of course (brief pause) a thing that I support a hundred percent, and it should have been done much more, and will (emphasis on the word "will") be done much more in the future. We have to remove every trace from what Christianity, and, the semitic roots have to offer this world (tense muscles can be seen flickering in Gaahl's hollow cheek) ... Satanism is freedom for the individual to grow and to become the superman. Every man who is born to be king, becomes king. Every man who is born to be a slave, doesn't know Satan.

I find it hard to see an argument for questioning this man's literally being a Satanist (although there are several types of Satanists). I will make the relevant changes to the article if someone else doesn't beat me to it. __meco (talk) 06:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

He hasn't actually said that he is a Satanist, just that Satan represents things, and so as much as it does indeed sound like he is a Satanist, it'd be speculation or OR to say that is what he is. ≈ The Haunted Angel Review Me! 19:03, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe the requirements you propose are too stringent, that adopting them would be to subject ourselves to knitpicking. When someone exclaims that their ultimate leader and inspirator is Satan, that person is a Satanist. In mye view, this cannot be construed as original research by any lucid intellect. __meco (talk) 20:55, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I would normally agree with you, but am reluctant to under the grounds that he has stated that his philosophical views are Shamanistic in nature, not Satanic - unless he is a bit of both? ≈ The Haunted Angel Review Me! 21:16, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I am going to study the 5-part documentary, which is newer than the one from which I quote. And of course, if Gaahl himself is less than unambiguous about his philosophical and religious views, he himself becomes less than a credible source to his own opinions (akin to modern-day politicians). __meco (talk) 22:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Nope, nothing there that would add light to this issue. __meco (talk) 22:58, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

But now having read up on the Imhotep interview from June 2006, I'm not so inclined to label him a Satanist. __meco (talk) 23:29, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, a very interesting interview - probably the best I've read with him. But yeah, the interview shows that he can't be called a Satanist. ≈ The Haunted Angel Review Me! 00:03, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Would any of you read up the definition of Satanism? LeVeyan Satanism at least? Satanist don't "believe" in Satan - they merely see him as a philosophy - which Ghaal obviously does, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.46.98.195 (talk) 21:03, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

LaVeyan Satanists don’t believe in Satan; theistic Satanists do, and quite a few of these don’t consider the LaVeyan philosophy to be Satanism. --217/83 21:33, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Personal life

Who gives a f*ck about Gaahl's beliefs. Write something about his personal life like what drugs he use is he married etc 201.23.32.2 (talk) 18:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The people who read give a fuck, such as me. Secondly, if it was sourced, we would provide that information. Thirdly, he's not married, and has never had a relationship - when I find the link I first read this, I'll add it. ≈ The Haunted Angel 19:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

This is the link, it's at the end. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.59.137.1 (talk) 07:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't find that little tidbit to be necessary. Gaahl is not gay damn it.. Take that off of there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Katrn05 (talk • contribs) 01:22, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The article in no way states he's 'gay,' it merely mentions states he (allegedly) had 'strong feelings' for another man. Whether or not people want to automatically assume Gaahl is a homosexual based on that sentence is up to them. --  StarScream1007  ►Talk  01:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of this, Gaahl's "fashion involvement" put as one of his primary activities was a little WP:POV, so I removed mention of this activity from the header (it is a bit too early to say that Gaahl is a "fashion Designer", don't you think), and put the associated text in his bio to make the article more neutral in this regard. I did not change the text though. Hervegirod (talk) 02:03, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, in issue 258 of Rock Hard (a german Metal magazine), the following can be read (translated from german)

RH: I find it to be very courageous that you came out as a homosexual. May I ask some questions about that?

Gaahl: Sure, no problem

RH: When I first met you, we talked for a long time about an old Judas Priest live video, which had impressed you deeply. Was Halfords outing a reason for being open with your sexuality?

Gaahl: No. Halford is a big musical inspiration for me, nothing more. It doesn't feel like I had an outing, as this was never before an issue for me. These are natural developments; I feel what I feel and I have never kept that secret

and later

RH[discussing his time in jail]: Sounds as if you had to take out a lot of trash from your life? (Very literal translation, I hope you'll understand)

Gaahl: Haha, yes, you could say that. I am very satisfied with the current situation. At the moment I like life.

RH: Do you think you are happy?

Gaahl: Yes, without doubt.

RH: That has to be great. You are free and do not have to hide anything

Gaahl: Indeed. But I had never hid anything. I just wasn't in love before.

RH: Never?

Gaahl: No, not until last year.

Talk about a girl who said she used to be his girlfriend, then

RH: How old are you?

Gaahl: 33

RH: So you have been a loner until your 32nd birthday?

Gaahl, laughing: I just reached puberty.

then, later

RH: You indeed sound content. Will this influence Gorgoroth?

Gaahl: Concerning my "outing", King was nervouser than me. He is happy about the cool acceptance of everyone.

and then they are rambling on. I chose to post such a large reply because I think it shows Gaahl is homosexual. He did not object to the first question and talks at large about his outing and love life (for a person like Gaahl, that is)

While a retranslation of an interview probably not conducted in german from german to english can not be accepted as definite proof, the statement that Gaahl is not gay is questionable. Some people camping on the VIP area of Wacken or allowed into the backstage area reported to have seen Gaahl snogging with a guy. I do not like rumours and I don't think they should have any bearing on this article, still I thought I'd add it.

213.47.147.200 (talk) 21:49, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

A Norwegian article from NRK[1] similarly presents Gaahl's homosexuality without actually using any specific terms such as gay or homosexual. The title in translation reads "Metal star Hails Open Gaahl" and quotes Dani Filth of Cradle Of Filth who says: "I mean, I don't give a damn whether he likes men. But this isn't just some man. It is a fashion designer, and they make summer dresses for women together. The world's most evil guy is designing summer apparel for models in Oslo. It doesn't get much more hilarious than that. Totally hysterical! I actually have great respect for this." __meco (talk) 10:26, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Splitting Gaahlskagg section

This section was just added because there was notability issues to begin with, and to avoid AFD. Perhaps it should be better developed to establish notability clearly, with full citations first. Myspace isn't a very good source at it is. PHARMBOY (TALK) 11:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

We can wait for that. But the articles should become separated. It is unwanted to have Gaahl categorized both as an individual and as a musical group. __meco (talk) 11:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

He shouldn't be categorized as a music group regardless. The other project hasn't been established as notable, and unless it is cited, WILL end up in AFD. Again, it WAS an article that was moved to avoid AFD as someone was having difficulty sourcing it. Source it first, then move it, like any other side project or article. PHARMBOY (TALK) 11:46, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm all for it as long as notability can be established. Stylistically it's just better. PEiP (talk) 04:26, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Split. Stands out too much for this article and thus makes it look terribly untidy, so therefore its notable. :P Dark Prime (talk) 14:17, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

SPplit done Hervegirod (talk)

Well done! Dark Prime (talk) 15:08, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Homosexuality

The article currently overstates Gaahl's openness about his sexuality. To say that he has "confirmed his homosexual orientation" is somewhat of a stretch. He has himself been very restrained in speaking on this. He has pretty much limited himself to responding to assertions by journalists as far as we can tell from the referenced media articles. __meco (talk) 12:01, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I read the Rock Hard interview in question, as linked from this article, and although he doesn't come right out and say the words "I am gay", at one point he confirms that he, as a gay man, may have made some enemies in the far-right of the black metal community; this, among other things (mentioning that he was less worried about his 'outing' than King was, etc.), leaves no reasonable doubt as to his orientation. It doesn't particularly matter that he is gay except insofar as Wikipedia is concerned with the facts regarding the subject of an article. In that sense, I suggest leaving the reference to his homosexuality intact. There is nothing inappropriate about it. Pw33n (talk) 19:23, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Dan De Vero

Gaahl's ex-boyfriend's name is presented as "Dan De Vero". Now, this is a very unusual name for a Norwegian, and from Norwegian media articles I gather that he is in fact Norwegian. I also cannot find him in the Norwegian tax returns registry which is available online, so I would assume that this is not his real name but rather a stage name. __meco (talk) 14:37, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Or he's not Norwegian. Zazaban (talk) 00:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

From the newspaper coverage that has been about him alone I gather he is Norwegian. At least he attended high school just outside Oslo. __meco (talk) 09:31, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

You can't really tell, to be honest. His family may have immigrated to Norway a few generations back, hence he is Norwegian but of another descent, or have married into a family that immigrated to Norway. Either way, it's of no consequence to the article. --Gpmuscillo (talk) 14:36, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Infernus and bona fide satanism

Since Gaahl refuses to acknowledge himself as a Satanist (read Imhotep interview) and simply uses the terminology to 'speak the Christians' language' (tartarean desire interview) while Infernus is an out-and-out Satanist, it is appropriate to label the latter as bona fide (not because hes a Theistic Satanist, but because he actually takes it to heart unlike Gaahl). While its been argued Gaahl's approach is like that of a LaVeyan Satanists, the latter count as bona fide because they too usually take Satan to heart. Dark Prime (talk) 12:12, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't see what people's obsession is with the label "bona fide" Satanist. There is no such thing, just like there is no such as thing as a "chief ideologist" or whatever else anyone else wants to label a member of Gorgoroth as. Gaahl has stated that Satanism for him is a way of expressing his beliefs to a Christian world, whereas Infernus takes his Satanism more seriously... but who has the authority to say what constitutes bona fide as opposed to..... not bona fide....? --Gpmuscillo (talk) 14:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Infernus - as the founder - is "chief ideologist" as he built the band on his outlooks - Gorgoroth is supposed to be a fundamentally satanic band. The sources speak for themselves - Gaahl refutes the term Satanist, Infernus calls himself a Satanist. To do the latter counts as bona fide as you're genuine about it. Dark Prime (talk) 11:09, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Imprisoned?

Article says "Gaahl was again imprisoned for nine months", but there is no previous mention of any imprisonment in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.177.87.198 (talk) 21:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes there is, a couple of paragraphs before the one you refer to. Dark Prime (talk) 21:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

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