Talk:Gazzarri's

Spelling

can someone with knowledge check the spelling of this club and move the page if necessary? Scarykitty 04:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

The correct spelling is "Gazzarri," which is the way Bill Gazzarri himself had it embossed in his own hat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPJlKDI8i_0. I hope that clears up any doubt. :) --Warriorboy85 (talk) 10:15, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Removal of Referenced Material By Unidentified User IP 12.234.177.122

You appear to be engaging in an edit war by removing properly referenced material, while adding material with no references whatsoever. Before you remove referenced material, please discuss your intent here and explain why you feel the material you wish to delete is inappropriate for the article and provide references for the material you are adding. Your courtesy and compliance will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. --TechnicalExcellence (talk) 06:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

A group of Gazzarri's alumni who have achieved considerable success originally submitted this article in 2007, and were asked by Wikipedia to defend the submission by listing very specifically "why the nightclub Gazzarri's was notable, newsworthy, or worth it's own entry on Wikipedia." After explaining it's value to LA and the national music scene, it was eventually decided that the only real noteworthy point was that Gazzarri's was the location that gave two Rock and Roll Hall of Fame bands their starts.

We were asked to create a separate section IF ANY OTHER BANDS who played at Gazzarri's achieved ANY OTHER degree of success. Once we did this, multi-million unit selling bands such as Ratt, Poison, and Guns N' Roses were included in this "other bands who played at Gazzarri's" paragraph.

It is extremely frustrating to have our article vandalized each and every day by mention in the first few paragraphs of a band that has not achieved anywhere NEAR the record sales, chart success or worldwide cultural relevance of Van Galen or The Doors. Renegade has no top hits, no Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame status, no Grammy Awards. We have tried to accommodate the accomplishments of Renegade in the "other bands who played here" paragraph/section, but those respectful, appropriate references were deleted by the vandals and replaced by their own irrelevant, self-serving references - in the very same paragraph with Van Halen and The Doors. The only places Renegade deserves mention in this article is in the 'other bands who played here' paragraph with the many other platinum-selling recording artists, and possibly the 'racial prejudice/Bill's reaction episode' in the Trivia section.

The panel of musicians who wrote this article, who played at Gazzarri's, who knew Bill well, and who wish to have this article presented properly and truthfully will continue to appeal to Wikipedia to clean this ongoing vandalism up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Melrose1986 (talk • contribs) 17:26, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

The members of Renegade were very close with Bill because he gave them a chance to play before anyone else, and after other clubs had refused on the basis of their Latin heritage. Until the day he died, Bill kept a copy of their first gold record (from Japan) hanging on the wall beside Van Halen's. When Bill was rushed to Cedars-Sinai hospital and ultimately had his appendix removed in 1985, he asked Russell to let them know. The entire band descended on the hospital and stayed with him throughout the operation and recovery, only leaving after hearing from him that he was going to be fine. At Rob Reiner's personal request, Renegade's manager let Spinal Tap open for them before the Spinal Tap movie was released. They appeared as Spinal Tap, using the names from the movie and played all of the songs you hear in the movie that night; few knew who they really were. What makes Gazzarri's "most notable" is not limited to Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductees or record sales. As a matter of fact, Renegade has sold more than 30 million records around the world, which is notable in and of itself. Their drummer is a Grammy Nominee, and thanked Bill at the nominee's luncheon in 1987. The members of Renegade credit their success in great part to Bill Gazzarri's having fought against racial prejudice and allowing them to play the Sunset Strip when no one else would. Their manager was a longtime friend of Bill and his sister Rose, and has repeatedly lauded Bill Gazzarri for his courage and willingness to help young bands of all ethnic backgrounds. Perhaps the most notable aspect of Gazzarri's was Bill's desire to give everyone a chance and his personal connection to the artists themselves spanning four decades. There have been some dark things written about Bill and Gazzarri's On The Strip, but few give him the credit he truly deserves for having been the best friend a musician had. Oliver Stone's movie "The Doors" completely rewrote history, ignoring Gazzarri's. The truth is that The Doors played on Bill's stage long before they played The Whiskey or The Starwood. Bill was personally hurt by that snub and went to the grave with resentment as a result. Gazzarri's On The Strip is most notable for Bill Gazzarri, who was the musician's best friend, regardless of their racial background, sexual orientation or album sales status. If you want a section devoted to Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductees who played Gazzarri's, that's a great idea. Also, Bill's reaction to racial prejudice is not fairly characterized as "trivia." He personally overcame prejudice and according to those who knew him well, despite the rough exterior he was a very caring person who fought for the little guy.

As for the "panel of musicians" who supposedly wrote the article, I believe you would better serve your cause by signing your edits and identifying yourself and the credentials you bring to the article. I was born after much of this happened, so my contributions are limited to research and the sources I cited. Much of the article is unsourced, or improperly supported, which needs to be cleaned up. Most notable would be a great introductory section, while perhaps other sections, such as Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Inductees would be excellent as well. The article must be accurate, well sourced and free from edit wars. Let's agree on a format and write an article everyone accepts as being factual. It should be an article about the impact Bill Gazzarri and Gazzarri's On The Strip had on the Los Angeles, if not the world's, music scene. --Warriorboy85 (talk) 21:27, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

First off, let us say we agree with your general sentiment that Bill was a good guy. As you say, he cared about young musicians in a way no other music industry person on the West Coast did. We miss the man.

Don't take our comments here to be intentionally offensive, but perhaps more like fellow successful musicians having spirited debate. Because Bill gave Renegade it's break, we see you wishing to promote Renegade in the same paragraph as Van Halen and The Doors. But, good sirs/ladies, Bill gave MANY bands their big break. We want to be respectful, but please re-consider Renegade's status among these bands and individuals that Bill also helped and befriended, and who do not consider themselves equal to The Doors or Van Halen (we don't): Guns N' Roses, Slash (half African-American, half white), Axl Rose, Ratt, Poison, Bret Michaels, Motley Crue, Nikki Sixx, Tommy Lee, and Tina Turner (African American.) They have ALL sold more records than Renegade - and not just in the U.S.A., but worldwide. Yet they have never engaged in an edit war with us to continually advertise their names and relationship to Bill in the very first few paragraphs. Again, this is not a racial issue - we ourselves are not all Caucasian. Edward and Alex Van Halen are of Dutch-Asian descent, and David Lee Roth is Jewish, yet no mention of anybody else's race appears in the article.

Renegade already has their own Wikipedia entry with references to the band members as "rock gods" - with little mention of Bill Gazzarri. As a result, the purpose YOU appear to serve is, not to fondly remember Bill Gazzarri's club, but to advertise the Renegade name, chopping up the initial points of the story about an important LA nightclub. Guys, the club launched DOZENS of careers, not just Renegade's. Please kindly reconsider Renegade's status among the two Hall of Fame bands in the first few paragraphs and reposition mention of Renegade in the "other bands who played there" paragraph. Place the sentence about Renegade's relationship to Bill in the Trivia section, and then rename the Trivia section - we did not call it Trivia, someone else editing did. Slash's fans have peacefully and reasonably edited information about Gazzarri's from Slash's book with no edit wars. As far as the introductory paragraph, that gets changed frequently by many writers. The information we have submitted is all referenced or is - like Renegade's - first-hand, personal experience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.250.85.116 (talk) 02:43, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Just so you know, I am not directly connected with Renegade, although I am a fan. I've never even met them in person, and they probably know nothing about this dispute. I have edited articles about them, along with other musicians and bands I find noteworthy. I am not trying to equate Renegade to Van Halen, The Doors or any other superstar act. And I don't have a problem with moving material about Renegade to another section within the article. I didn't write the original article and there are really only two sections. The lead section, followed by additional paragraphs, with a "Trivia" section below. If you're going to define Gazzarri's in its entirety as being "most notable" on the basis of Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductees who played there, you then pervert the meaning of "most notable" and won't do justice to Bill. It's not most notable solely on the basis of Hall of Fame inductees who played there, but because of the character Bill Gazzarri was, the title "Godfather of Rock and Roll," the hat, what he did for all of the bands who played there regularly and the impact the club had on the entire music scene throughout four decades. If you want to create a section for bands who got their start at Gazzarri's, you could certainly move the Renegade references to that section along with all the other bands. But you didn't do that, you just deleted the references to Renegade, as though they weren't a part of the club's history. Then you suggested in your comments above that they might deserve a mention under trivia. Bill Gazzarri would never have referred to any of his regular bands as trivial, and the role he played in helping Renegade overcome the racial prejudice they experienced was quite admirable and helped set him apart from all of the other club owners. They were booked practically every Wednesday for quite some time, and had a waiting line to get in as a result of restrictions set by the fire marshal. Bill was very proud of that fact, and would stroll down Sunset gloating to Elmer Valentine who had refused to book the band because of their race. This was before Latin rock took off and race was an issue amongst most of the club owners back then. Bill Gazzarri befriended those boys and they remained very close with him until the day he died. Yes, there's another article about Renegade, but it clearly credits Bill Gazzarri's role in their having overcome racial discrimination. Wikipedia is open for all to edit, and no one is trying to engage in an edit war or diminish the intent of your contributions to the article. A review of the history demonstrates that you simply deleted properly sourced material using a vague edit summary of "references removed" and never signed any of those deletions. When several editors restored the deleted material, you just kept deleting it again with no further explanation and refused to discuss your reasons here. It wasn't until the article was locked that you finally began following WP rules. The article is filled with unsourced content which accounts for the cleanup template. If you want to work together constructively in a manner that sets out what Gazzarri's was, why it was so important to the Los Angeles (if not national) music scene, and follow up with appropriate sections that pay tribute to the various things that made Bill Gazzarri and his club stand out, I look forward to doing so. --Warriorboy85 (talk) 08:03, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Not sure what your end game is. You keep trailing off-point about Renegade's relationship to Bill Gazzarri, which is the point of contention in the article as well. Renegade's relationship to Bill Gazzarri is un-newsworthy and does not belong in the first few paragraphs. The LA Times did not even MENTION Renegade in it's Bill Gazzarri Obituary, while it did state that Bill was proud of launching the careers of The Doors, Van Halen, Tina Turner, Guns n' Roses, Motley Crue, Poison, Warrant and others - the same information this very article states. The LA Times editors know more about newsworthiness than you or we do. Renegade does not register anywhere online or in libraries as having sold even ONE million records in the USA, where the majority this article's readers reside. You also chastise the many people who have created this article when you did not write it, or help build it with any factual information other than your Renegade mention. This article was created truthfully under the guidelines of Wikipedia and all of the readers suggestions. It has evolved slowly and respectfully until the Renegade mentions came along, which has turned this truthful article into a race-tinged argument/Renegade advertisement. Please back off the Renegade promotion, do some research and contribute some more NEWSWORTHY, verifiable, non-Renegade history to this article that readers will find compelling (suggestions - his rivalry with Elmer Valentine, his relationship to the nearby record companies, and his competition with The Troubadour, The Roxy, and The Whiskey a Go Go.) We just have a hard time taking you seriously when all YOU'VE done is slap your "rock-gods" into the second paragraph, and slap all the other musicians Bill was proud of in the face. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.234.177.122 (talk) 16:15, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

There really is no need to be offensive. There is likewise no "game" here or effort to "promote" Renegade. But you seem to be on a mission to erase their role in Gazzarri's history. There are a number of us who believe that Renegade played an important role in Bill Gazzarri's life, his club, the dispute with Elmer Valentine and many other areas. I don't know if Stan, Russell or Rose are still with us, but if so, I can assure you they would verify the relationship those boys had with Bill. It is irrelevant whether the L.A. Times mentioned them in their article or not. As a matter of fact, Bill didn't launch the career of Tina Turner. Mike Stewart hid her away from Ike (during the separation and divorce) and built a show for her in Las Vegas so she could develop her new material. He then broke her without so much as a single appearance at Gazzarri's. She did play there with Ike during the Ike & Tina Turner days. Tina explains it all nicely in her book. There are numerous articles that discuss Bill Gazzarri's connection and close relationship with the members of Renegade. Their manager is quoted in a number of places and he and Bill went back many years. If your desire is to completely dismiss Renegade from the article, we will obviously have a sustained disagreement. If, however, you are willing to create a section in the article that discusses other bands who got their start at Gazzarri's, without denigrating those bands as nothing more than "trivia," I'll gladly work with you. I admit that I am most concerned with preserving and memorializing Renegade's ties to Bill Gazzarri and Gazzarri's on the Strip. That's not to say that I have any less respect for any other band who got their start there. However, a number of us added Renegade to the article (and in fact cleaned up other portions of it) and all you've done is delete our work while totally disrespecting us. To make matters worse, you never bother to sign your edits leaving SineBot to sign it with no more than your IP address. I am not trying to get into a fight with you, but I also don't want you to just delete other people's work because you philosophically disagree with the significance of a reported fact. I told you above that I look forward to working with you to create new sections to accommodate other bands who got their start at Gazzarri's. We can then move Renegade into that section along with any other band who fits the section. There's already a cleanup and quality standards template on the article, which means it needs to be structured properly. No one wants to contribute to an article that's being vandalized regularly. I would love to discuss Bill's rivalry with Elmer Valentine and happen to know quite a bit about it, primarily because Elmer refused to book Renegade there for months. I've researched that rivalry and have some understanding of it. I have no idea what your motives are, and I'm not trying to delete anything you've contributed to the article. By the same token, I don't want you arbitrarily deleting sourced material I contribute just because you don't think it's as important as your contributions. That's exactly the behavior that ignites edit wars. You claim Renegade doesn't belong in the first section alongside Van Halen and The Doors. Okay, I can accept that. But until you create another section (not one called "Trivia") that provides a more appropriate place to add information on the other bands, I must object to any effort to delete other sourced contributions. How would you like it if I just randomly began deleting your work? You wouldn't, and I wouldn't blame you. So let's work together to find a compromise that creates a section for all bands of a lesser stature than Van Halen and The Doors, move Renegade to that new section and jointly improve the article from all angles. Can you agree to that much? --Warriorboy85 (talk) 01:35, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, enough

Please, no personal attacks. Please discuss how to improve the article with reliable sources, not original research. tedder (talk) 01:57, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Live at the Key Club section -- irrelevant in this article?

I would posit that the Live at the Key Club section does not belong in this article. All the releases listed there are dated well after Gazzarri's closed and was demolished, and these recordings' only connection with the original club is that they were created in the approximate geographic location. That's not sufficient to determine relevance, any more than a Burgers Sold at McDonald's section would be appropriate in this article had Gazzarri's been replaced by the burger joint.

This section should either be moved to the Key Club article if there is one, or simply dropped altogether. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:844:4204:63BB:5857:E8FB:DEDC:B921 (talk) 01:44, 15 June 2016 (UTC)