Talk:Gemütlichkeit

[Untitled

either we have another example of british english differing from american, or there's a lot of typos here. 'cosy'??

Yes, 'cosy' in British English. What else ("a lot of typos")? All the best, <KF> 21:58, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Revert Dutch/German

I'm going to revert the sentence about Dutch/German. While not completely untrue the actual situation is much more complex and the original text was not incorrect. Both words exist in both Dutch and German:

• Gemütlichkeit <=> Gemoedelijkheid
• Gezelligheid <=> Geselligkeit

However, these are literal translations. Dutch and German have a similar origin. During the centuries the meaning of many words has slightly changed, and they can no longer be translated with their literal equivalents. The fact is, today "gezelligheid" in Dutch does not mean staying in a "gemutlich" atmosphere, but "gemütlichkeit" itself and should be translated as such in any translation. My dictionary lists "gezellige onvormelijkheid" as the definition of "gemoedelijkheid"; hard to translate into English, but German speakers will understand it.

Now I could explain all of this in the article, but it would take the majority of the text, making the content of the article rather unbalanced. Perhaps when the article is a bit larger. For now I'll revert it, the original text was correct.

nl:Gebruiker:Danielm

I would say that Gemütlichkeit / Gemoedelijkheid is not the same as Gezelligheid / Geselligkeit. Gemütlich means cosy, a nice place to stay, or a comfortably chair or couch. You can have it "gemütlich" at home, alone with a book. Geselligkeit has to be in company with others, it can be "gemütlich" with others as well, but you can't have it "gesellig" while you are alone. Being alone is the opposite of gesellig. Gemütlichkeit comes from Gemüt, meaning something like mood. Geselligkeit comes from Gesellschaft, meaning society or company. The word Gemütlichkeit means much more than beergarden and Lederhosen. The Swedish language btw knows the word as well: gemytlighet Cattleyard 13:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

To add more confusion: gemütlich and Gemütlichkeit share the same etymological origin, but their meaning differs slightly: gemütlich can indeed mean cosy, but Gemütlichkeit can not! Being alone with a book can be gemütlich, but Gemütlichkeit (in german) is IMPOSSIBLE without at least a second person! And Geselligkeit (I don't know about the Dutch term) does not necessarily have to be gemütlich: Geselligkeit can be pretty cheerful and exciting, which Gemütlichkeit can't. The difference would be that between a heuriger and the Oktoberfest, for example. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.74.2.148 (talk) 22:02, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

I'd say Gemütlichkeit is very well possible without another person. Let's say you're talking about rocking chair on the porch in front of a house by a lake (yeah cliche ;)), you could say "Dieser Ort strahlt Gemütlichkeit aus" (This place beams with [Gemütlichkeit]), without ever thinking you might have to share it with anyone. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.122.157.235 (talk) 08:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

Enough arguments are made that perhaps a new article is justified explaining 'gezelligheid'. I would like to see one exist. Is it simply a function of someone's time that one isn't created? If so, could I go ahead and create one using the Dutch-language page (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gezelligheid) as the basis? (I speak Dutch and would be happy to contribute the first draft translation.)

I'd say there is a gliding scale from the English cozy, to the Dutch gezellig, with cozy being a nice homely place, and gezellig being a nice homely place with social interaction. On that scale, the Dutch knus is very close to cozy and the German gemütlich somewhere between knus and gezellig.145.53.130.13 (talk) 10:53, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Removal of RFD tag

I object to this article's deletion as the article entitled "List of English words with diacritics" links to it. It may be of poor quality, but what it needs is a request for cleanup, not a death sentence. Doremítzwr 19:14, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, the umlaut is unnecessary for pronunciation, and, as it is included atop a solitary vowel, cannot be confused with a diaeresis. There already exists a page entitled Gemutlichkeit which redirects to Gemütlichkeit. Doremítzwr 19:17, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Unnecessary for pronunciation? Just because [u] and [y] are not a minimal pair to most English speakers doesn't mean they're the same.--88.73.5.203 (talk) 20:59, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Swedish mys/mysig: another parallel

Since other people have brought up the Scandinavian languages here, I'm surprised that no one else has thought of the words mys 'coziness' and mysig 'cozy' as relevant. Like Gemütlichkeit, the word mys can describe either "environmental" or "social" coziness: a Swedish artist who wants to depict the stereotypical mysig situation will show someone curled up on the couch, often with a friend or two snuggled nearby.

The word mysig can also describe personality: it means "sweet snd nice", or "cozy to be with". My German is not that good, so I'm unsure whether gemütlich ever applies to people that way... -- Ingeborg S. Nordén 23:26, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it can: "ein gemütlicher Opa" - "a grandpa cosy to be with" in the sense of "you wouldn't expect anything hectic or mean with him". 88.73.86.142 (talk) 07:48, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you. The concepts are very similar. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

If I am not mistaken the swedish `mys´ means german `Muße´ (latin `otium´). `Gemütlichkeit´ has a part of `Muße´ in it, but it is still a very subjective expression. At least it is still another german idealism of meaning: 1. You feel `gemütlich´, if you are at a special place without the slightest thought of leaving. 2. You are `gemütlich´, if you not even seem to be animous to anyone in your presence (hence, the typical joke-`Kraut´ is the exact opposition of being `gemütlich´) 3. Something can be `gemütlich´ - in other words `komfortabel´. (4.It seems, that `Gemütlich´ is widely taken for a special kind of `interieur´ - which means old styled, humble, darkish and rurical at all.)--78.54.32.119 (talk) 22:51, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

See Feng Shui??

Seriously? I don't see the connection there. Mjl0509 (talk) 05:22, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Other than that Feng-Shui-styl arrangements are almost necessarily ungemütlich.--2.236.198.248 (talk) 02:20, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Dutch "Gezellig" means cheap as well

If I were to define the word "gezellig", "feeling at home" and "lack of tension" are ok, but I feel it also has a connotation of cheap and "enjoying with a far from perfect situation". A 5 star hotel can never be "gezellig", unless there is a power cut and you drink warm beer with the bartender by improvised candle light. Playing Monopoly in a cold tent, with blankets on your lap, drinking cheap wine using plastic cups and a storm outside and still somehow enjoying the situation is perhaps the definition of "gezellig". Joepnl (talk) 03:34, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

To me, "gezellig/gezelligheid" sounds very similar to the German "gesellig/Geselligkeit". Both, adjective and noun seem to come along with "Gesellschaft" (which, besides others, means "company"[here: a group of people/companions who are with you]). I don't know Dutch, but if our languages are similar enough, I would say that the German Gemütlichkeit describes an inner state of your mind. Gemütlichkeit is what you feel. The Dutch gezelligheid (if it is the same as the German Geselligkeit) is an external state of yourself. It is your connection to others. This again would mean that Gemütlichkeit and gezelligheid are definitely not the same. Not even similar, although both can appear at the same occasion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.139.71.230 (talk) 21:27, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Only Culture

I deleted "Germans" because the word refers to a nationality but G. refers to the the German culture which is present also in Austria, Switzerland, Southern Tyrol etc.. Taliopo (talk) 12:51, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Removed sections

Since the article posits there are no direct equivalent terms in most languages, I removed the several imperfect translations. What is the point of noting "this is the closest possible phrase" in a bunch of languages which don't have a direct equivalent of the concept? (Heroeswithmetaphors) talk 11:27, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Couthy

"Couthy" is a Scots adjective that comes closer than "cozy" to the sense of gemütlich.

The Concise Scots Dictionary (ed. Mairi Robinson, Aberdeen University Press, 1985) says "couthie" means, of persons, "agreeable, sociable, friendly, sympathetic" and of places or things, "comfortable, smug, neat, pleasant, agreeable." The related noun "couth" has the different sense of "known."

Another Concise Scots Dictionary, called The Scots Dialect Dictionary on its dust jacket (ed. Alexander Warrack, Poole: 1911/1988) says "couthie" means "kind, pleasant, agreeable, affable, tender, sympathetic; snug, comfortable; well-to-do" as an adjective and "affectionately" as an adverb. "Couth" appears as another form of the adjective.

However I usually encounter the word spelled "couthy." In Scotland, it has come to be almost a term of abuse in the hands of metropolitan critics, and its use may be accompanied by reference to the Kailyard school. There is or was a "Couthy Café" in Stirling. The Scots (especially the women) tend, like the Dutch, to use diminutives ending with "-ie" more than the English: which is in itself a couthie practice. NRPanikker (talk) 20:33, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

GK Chesterton quote

This doesn't seem like it belongs. There are 2 quotes used, but they don't actually seem to relate in the original text. He is seeming to try to construct a word in English, but German language/culture is not what is driving that action.

Additionally, Gemütlichkeit is not directly mentioned in the text. It could be inferred potentially, but does not seem direct enough to have bearing on this article. 73.65.11.109 (talk) 00:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree. I removed this paragraph. Cheers! DoctorMatt (talk) 00:56, 6 December 2023 (UTC)