Talk:Genesis of the Daleks

Costume/Continuity Error

There is a significant costuming error between this story and the last, which makes the continuity of the programme problematic. I've tried to add this to the article, but it keeps being deleted as "fancruft", (whatever that means). Before I am banned from editing, I think it worth noting here that this is a big continuity error and worthy of inclusion. The main characters travel in this story by T-Mat Beam and not in the TARDIS. They have no access to any wardrobe or change of clothes. In between demateralising at the end of the last story and re-appearing at the start of this one, Sarah Jane has undergone a costume change. It's clearly simply a production error, but it could also lead rise to speculation that another unseen story took place between the two adventures. For this alone, it is worth noting. 71.146.16.112 (talk) 18:37, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Trivia like this is non notable and his considered unencyclopedic per long standing consensus here at Wikipedia. This is a television show made under time and money constraints and continuity errors happen all of the time. That does not make them notable. See WP:TRIVIA, WP:OR and WP:NOTABILITY among many others for why your edits are being removed. Since these are obviously important to you I can only suggest that you would be happier putting these items in a blog or the Dr Who Wikia where there is more room for this kind of trivia. MarnetteD | Talk 18:48, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

But trivia such as "There is no mention of Kamelion's absence from this story" is OK, as on The Five Doctors page. Or pointing out that a floor in that episode is a little bit similar to one in a previous story is OK. I think you need to redefine your definition of fancruft and apply your edits consistently. 71.146.16.112 (talk) 19:18, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I know this is old, but if you watch the story - Sarah finds the clothes she wears in Revenge in a cupboard and spends the last episode of Genesis wearing them - so no error at all!Tuzapicabit (talk) 23:40, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Except that Genesis occurs 'before' Revenge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidhorman (talk • contribs) 20:35, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

The clothes she wears in Revenge was found in a cupboard in Genesis. DonQuixote (talk) 00:35, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Recent edit

Was wondering why sourced content (==Continuity== etc.) was removed from the article with this edit? Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 20:00, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I tried asking the perp, but they don't know either... --Redrose64 (talk) 20:24, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

The rollback button can cause problems sometimes. Glimmer721 ^talk 23:56, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

The user concerned doesn't have the rollback right. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:04, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Genesis of the Daleks/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sarastro1 (talk · contribs) 15:47, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh, this one is too good to pass up! Sarastro1 (talk) 15:47, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I did some copy-editing. Feel free to revert anything you don't like. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:16, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Lead

• The very short first paragraph in the lead is a little jarring.
• "who felt Nation's original outline was too similar to his previous Dalek adventures": As we haven't been told about this outline, perhaps "the outline originally submitted by Nation was too similar…"?
• "with whom the story gained a darker tone and some changes were made to the original script": These two phrases basically say the same thing, and perhaps could be merged to "who made changed to the original script which gave it a darker tone".
• "Genesis of the Daleks premiered with 10.7 million viewers and concluded with 9.1 million": Looks a little like this is one episode; perhaps make it clear that this refers to the opening and closing episodes.
  • Added "six weeks later", though the fact that it was broadcast in six weekly parts had already been covered in the lead. Glimmer721 ^talk 02:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
• "The serial has received positive reviews and has been named by fans and critics as one of the best serials of Doctor Who.": Don't think we need the "has" construction here. "received" and "was named" may work better.

I've fixed everything in this section. Glimmer721 ^talk 02:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Plot

• As I have said before, I think this section may be too long. I've had a look at what could be cut, and came up with something like this:

The Fourth Doctor is intercepted while travelling from Earth to the Ark by the Time Lords who instruct him to interfere in the creation of the Daleks to avert a future time when Daleks would dominate the universe. The Doctor is given a Time Ring to use to return to the TARDIS when the task is completed. The Doctor finds that he is already on the planet Skaro and joins his companions Sarah Jane Smith and Harry Sullivan. Skaro is a war-torn planet; a generational war of attrition between the Thals and the Kaleds for dominance of the planet has laid waste to its surface and ecology. In the midst of a poison gas attack by the Thals, the Doctor and Harry are dragged inside the Kaled dome, while Sarah is left outside. She eventually runs into the Mutos, exiled descendants of those mutated by chemical weapons early in the war, but they are captured by the Thals. Sarah and the Mutos are used to manually load radioactive components into a missile which is to be launched at the Kaled dome. Sarah attempts to lead an escape by climbing out of the rocket silo, but fails.

Meanwhile, the Doctor and Harry are brought before the Kaled elite: General Ravon, the leader of the Kaled army, and Security Commander Nyder. The Doctor attempts to explain that they are aliens, but Nyder dismisses this: the Kaled's greatest scientist, Davros has stated there is no life outside of Skaro. The Doctor and Harry have their possessions, including the Time Ring, taken, but another scientist, Ronson, discovers they are truly alien. At that moment, Davros demonstrates his new "Mark III travel machine", which he later dubs a "Dalek". Ronson subsequently confides in the Doctor that he and other scientists believe Davros' research has become immoral and evil, using unethical mutations to create the Daleks. The Doctor promises to tell the Kaled leaders about Davros and the Daleks if Ronson assists their escape. The Doctor meets Mogran and other Kaled Councillors, who agree to halt Davros' experiments. But Davros discovers this through Nyder's spies; he prepares twenty Daleks under computer control, and covertly provides the Thal leaders with a chemical to weaken the Kaled dome in order that their rocket will penetrate it.

The Doctor and Harry rescue Sarah from the Thal dome, but in doing so, the Doctor is captured. He watches helplessly as the Thals launch their rocket and destroy the Kaled dome. At the Kaled bunker, Davros declares the Kaled race is dead, giving birth to the Daleks; he claims Ronson provided the chemical secret to the Kaleds and has him executed. He instructs the next scientist, Gharman, to remove compassion and pity from the new Dalek mutations, and sends them to the Thal dome to exterminate everyone inside. In the confusion, the Doctor, Sarah, and Harry rejoin the few Thal and Mutos survivors, and return to the Kaled bunker. The Doctor instructs the Thals and Mutos to try to destroy the bunker, while he and his companions return inside. They are captured by Davros, who becomes aware of the Doctor's knowledge of the Daleks' future. The Doctor is forced to describe all future defeats of the Daleks which Davros records to ensure that they will never occur.

The Doctor, Sarah, and Harry are freed by another scientist, who tells them that Davros appears to have succumbed to the demands of the Kaled Councillors and will stop his research but wants to call a vote. While Davros pleads his case, the Doctor recovers their possessions including the Time Ring. On the vote, the remaining Kaled elite are split between Davros and Gharman, and fighting breaks out between them with Davros using the Daleks to kill those against him. The Doctor and his companions use the opportunity to rig explosives in the Kaled mutation room, but the Doctor is unable to bring himself to detonate it. Instead, they force Nyder to take them to the recording of Dalek defeats, which they destroy. They learn that the Thals and Mutos have prepared to detonate explosives to seal the Daleks inside the bunker, and have little time to escape. The Doctor returns to destroy the Kaled mutants; a Dalek inadvertently completes the circuit and destroys the room. The Doctor, Sarah, and Harry escape just before the Thal explosives detonate.

Meanwhile, the Daleks have killed everyone except Davros in the Kaled bunker and started the production line against Davros' wishes. Davros, realising that his creations have achieved sentience, attempts to destroy the bunker, but he is shot by a Dalek. The Daleks announce that they are the superior race and will dominate the universe. The Doctor, Sarah, and Harry say goodbye to the surviving Thals and Mutos. While the Doctor did not stop the Daleks, he does believe he has hindered their development for some centuries, and was thus successful in his mission. The three use the Time Ring to return to their own future.

• I still think it could stand further cutting, but wanted to see what you think first. (Feel free to argue!)
• I also think more should be made of the "have I the right" scene; perhaps the words should be included as they are no-where else in the article.
  • Incorporated your suggestion, and mentioned the quote. I think the general rule is 100 words for every 10 minutes, which gives Genesis 1500 words. The plot summary is currently about 850. Glimmer721 ^talk 01:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Conception and writing:

• "He also aimed to make the series more adult": Seems tacked on. Perhaps, "As part of his drive to make the series more adult..."?
• "Genesis of the Daleks saw several changes from the script": Not sure it can "see" anything. Maybe "There were several differences between the scripted and broadcast versions of the story".
  • I put "The production of" before it instead; it makes more sense. Glimmer721 ^talk 02:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Casting and costume

• "The cast and crew regarded Davros' effects as a great technical achievement considering the budget and time period they worked in": I doubt that they really thought "Hmm, this is good for 1975" as they were making it! Perhaps make clear that this was a retrospective opinion.
  • It's a bit of both, actually; they said at the time they were awed by it (hence the anecdotes about scaring kids and turning off the lights while Wisher was still in the studio). I'm not really sure what to do with that sentence; I'll come back to it later. Glimmer721 ^talk 02:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Filming and effects

• "used colours and dark lighting to make the Daleks seem as if they were "emerging from the shadows" and suggest rather than show things to viewers": This is slightly ambiguous. Used colours how? Suggest what?
  • Tried to clarify. It wasn't really specified. Glimmer721 ^talk 02:58, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
• "Unsure, he left the episode in the freeze frame ending": Unclear what this means.
• Is it worth specifying that the freeze-frame ending was used a few times afterwards?
  • I'll see if I can find a reliable source, especially one that mentions it as a trademark of Maloney; The Deadly Assassin is rather important... Glimmer721 ^talk 02:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Used Maloney's obituary, already a reference that has been used. Still have to do the first bullet point here. Glimmer721 ^talk 23:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Themes and analysis

• "The discussion between the Doctor and Davros about the hypothetical viral weapon is regarded as a classic moment from Doctor Who": By who?
  • I think that was one the article before I started working on it. I've changed it. Glimmer721 ^talk 02:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
• On the "have I the right" scene: Maybe more could be added as this was a really big deal and for many years was used by fans to justify their love of the series pre-2005.

General

• Watch out for numbers over ten: figures or words? A little inconsistency.
• The article really should use British English, and I've altered it accordingly.
  • I've tried to adapt the best I can (indeed, sometimes I find myself spelling words the British way normally) - is there anything particularly that would be of note to watch out for on future projects? Glimmer721 ^talk 02:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
    • The "-our" words tend to be the ones to watch out for. To be honest, there were very few Am-Eng spellings in this one. Sarastro1 (talk) 23:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
• Spot checks are fine.
• What makes this a reliable source?
  • I've got a message into Use:Redrose64 about another source, but I think it's considered reliable because it's complied by one person (who is a published author) and sources are listed. Glimmer721 ^talk 01:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
• Images fine; FUR appropriate in all 3 cases. Dablinks and external links are fine.

I'll place this on hold for now, but a really great bit of work this one. Well done. Sarastro1 (talk) 17:16, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! I've got a busy few days ahead so I'll be working on this on and off; the plot section will probably be the last thing I get to. Glimmer721 ^talk 02:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I believe I have addressed everything now. Glimmer721 ^talk 01:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

OK, I think this is good to go. In an ideal world. I'd like a little more on "Have I the right?", and I think there are a few loose ends that are neither here or there from a couple of above points. But that's just my preference. I think this is easily good enough for GA, so I'm passing now. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:24, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Wow!!

Just getting into Dr. Who, and, wow... GOTD rocks. It's like Stanley Kubrick stole the Tardis, traveled to the studio, and slapped the costume and set designers over the head with a wet fish. Two thumbs up!!  !!!! 24.51.217.118 (talk) 05:04, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

While many might agree with you regarding the quality of the serial, neither this talk page in particular, or Wikipedia in general, are a forum for the expression of such views. The Internet provides many sites for just that purpose; this isn't one of them. Please try to keep your talk page contributions focussed on improving the articles to which they relate, rather than general comments. Thanks, Bowdenford (talk) 08:51, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:NOTFORUM --Redrose64 (talk) 08:08, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

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