Talk:Genetic studies on Arabs

note

The page is difficult to read; it needs serious copy editing. I hesitate to edit it myself, as I do not have sufficient knowledge of the topic. The page also contains several lists, and appears to be repetitive. The contents could perhaps be merged into the relevant disease articles. Suzisabella (talk) 02:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Centre

The Centre for Arab Genomic Studies oversees genetic analyses on all Arab states. It also explicitly indicates that bioculturally, most populations native to the Arab world are Arabized:

[1]:

The term “Arabs” indicates a panethnicity of peoples of various ancestral origins, religious backgrounds, and historic identities. It is possible to define the geographical area inhabited by Arabs using one of the two following approaches:

(1) The linguistic approach is a relaxed definition and it includes all populations speaking the Arabic language and living in a vast area extending from south of Iran in the east to Morocco in the west including parts in the south-east of Asia Minor, East, and West Africa.

(2) The political definition of Arabs is more conservative as it only includes those populations residing in 23 Arab States, namely: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates (UAE), and Yemen.

Thus, the haplogroup distribution table is per the Centre. Soupforone (talk) 17:50, 12 December 2016 (UTC) Soupforone (talk) 17:50, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Somalis, Berbers and others do not regard as "Arabs". In addition, some percentages do not match with the informations in the article.85.98.5.218 (talk) 17:56, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

This source and an another one was deleted by you. You just selected a particular source to show up and I cannot access that source to read it.85.98.5.218 (talk) 18:02, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

That is incorrect HailesG. All of the territories listed above are Arab League members, and thus their native populations are analysed by the Centre for Arab Genomic Studies [2]. By deleted you are presumably referring to the general Egyptian frequencies, which I streamlined because they were pointlessly duplicated with different percentages. As for the haplogroup frequencies in Southern Egypt, what I actually did was substitute a smaller sample study for a larger sample. That Trombetta et al. analysis is also actually accessible online [3] - the frequencies are in the supplementary file [4]. Regards-- Soupforone (talk) 18:20, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

I am not HailesG. And being member of the Arab League DOES NOT mean being Arabs. Are you kidding? Somalis and Berbers are not Arabs, it is clear. And I still do not understand why did you deleted the source that I have mentioned above. In addition you showed the haplogroup J1 as haplogroup J! Haplogroup J has two branches: J1 and J2. Many many errors...And I cannot access many sources there (source 55 for example) 85.98.5.218 (talk) 18:31, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

What you are alluding to is degree of Arabization, not actual peninsular Arab ancestry. This is obvious since Berbers and Maghrebis share ancestral origins. That you cannot access other links which are readily available online is also not my issue. As for coding errors, there are none per the wiki bot. Regards-- Soupforone (talk) 19:08, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Somalis, Nubians ARE NOT Arabs. It has nothing to do with "Arabization". They are not even Semitics. Nigerians speak English. So go add Nigerians to the genetics researches on British people. 85.98.5.218 (talk) 19:12, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Ah, if only it were that simple [5]. Soupforone (talk) 19:29, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Being related to Berbers does not mean we should regard Berbers as "Arabs". 85.98.5.218 (talk) 19:37, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Note: I have read your comments on Arabs. I do not think that you are neutral, sorry. According to your agenda, Arabs are not an ethnicity but the United Nations. It is ridiculous because most of Arabs share the same gene pool: High proportions of J1, J2, E (Natufian haplogroup) 85.98.5.218 (talk) 19:41, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

I didn't assert that Berbers are Arabs (?). I indicated that Berbers and Maghrebis share ancestral origins, regardless of the fact that Maghrebis have adopted the Arabic language and culture. The analysis linked above demonstrates that too. Also, the dominant paternal subclades in the Maghreb are E1b1b-M81 and E1b1b-M78, which (along with a bit of R1 and J) were carried by the ancient Guanche Berbers. Soupforone (talk) 04:11, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

@Soupforone: The old version better, including most of the Arab peoples, with an explanation, modern and diverse sources. So please return the old version.--HailesG (talk) 02:48, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

That haplogroup distribution was basically synthesis. It made various incorrect claims, such as that the E1b1b and J paternal clades are comparably distributed in Egypt and Sudan. In actuality, this is only the situation vis-a-vis Lower Egypt. In Upper Egypt, the population instead primarily carries E1b1b-M215 [6]; and in the Siwa oasis, R1b has a higher presence among local Berbers [7]. The maternal clades are also quite different. Therefore, the extant Y-DNA table is more neutral and accurate. Soupforone (talk) 04:11, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

This table is not good, there are many Arab peoples do not exist in the table, please return the old version, corrected and add what you want. (Article talking about genes among the Arabs and not the origin of the gene).--HailesG (talk) 04:51, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

The table is on haplogroup distribution rather than gene origins. The haplogroup frequencies in it are clearly and neutrally presented, without any synthesis. Any clade percentages that are uncertain can be easily corrected. Also, note that if the table had been on gene origins, it would point out that the E1b1b clade is believed to have originated in Africa tens of millenia ago. Soupforone (talk) 16:38, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

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