Talk:Genetic studies of Jews

Please reverse mistakes introduced by Elgv18483

Elgv18483 has been disrupting various Wikipedia pages and has done so here. Please reverse what he did. As you can see at https://biologydirect.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1745-6150-5-57 Zoossmann-Diskin's 2010 study examined "Six Jewish populations: EEJ, Moroccan Jews, Iraqi Jews. Iranian Jews, Yemenite Jews and Ethiopian Jews". What Elgv18483 did was replace the word "Iraq" with "Persia" in the sentence describing populations he studied. "from Iran, Iraq and Yemen" transformed into "Iran, Persia and Yemen" even though Persia is equivalent to Iran. This is not an improvement. He also arbitrarily added Germany to the list of 6 populations studied in Rosenberg's 2001 study, making it 7, but Poland was the only country of origin in that region that they studied. Observe the countries that are and aren't listed under "MeSH terms" in https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11158561/ 172.56.28.205 (talk) 11:10, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks to User:AgisdeSparte for reverting Elgv18483's mistakes at 10:59, 31 May 2024, when I was in the midst of fixing pages about Jewish populations and personalities that he had touched. While I was composing my message for this Talk page, I hadn't refreshed the main page's history to notice that the problem was fixed. 172.56.28.205 (talk) 11:48, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Please reverse the change made by Elgv18483 on 2 June 2024‎ at 17:31 that changed the sentence "According to the 2008 study by Behar, 43% of Iraqi Jews are descended from five women." to "According to the 2008 study by Behar, 43% of Kurdish Jews are descended from five women." The sentence cites Behar's study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2323359/ and I see there the clear statement "Similarly, we found that about 43% of the Iraqi Jewish community can be traced back to 5 women whose mtDNA belongs to Hgs T2c1, J1b'e/J1e, U3b1a, H13a2b and W1d (Table 2), all frequent in the Near and Middle East." It doesn't use the terminology Kurdish Jews there. 172.58.241.140 (talk) 09:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done. @Elgv18483 please refrain from making changes unsupported by sources. If you believe that you were right, please explain your reasoning at the talk. Alaexis_¿question? 05:49, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Raphael Falk

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
From thr citation in thr Article, "Anti-Semitism conceived the socio-cultural traits of Jews to be a consequence of their biological essence. Jew-hatred became racism: hatred of the Semitic race, anti-Semitism; it endowed biological justification to socio-cultural discrimination." This should have it's own section. It identifies the main thrust of the artlce as antisemitic and racism. 2603:7000:4600:358A:E975:72ED:AD86:A922 (talk) 18:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)  Not done - it's not racist or antisemitic to do genetic studies on Jewish people, which find shared Middle Eastern ancestry in most Jewish populations. Andre🚐 08:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC) The source said it is antisemitic and they are a Holocaust Survivor so I am inclined to believe them over someone who quoted Mein Kampft to a Jew to call them diseased and then scrubbed the Talk in order to hide it. But I understand your apprehension as the Wikipedia page's point is that like all Jews I am just a "stupid Jew" who doesn't understand that my "race" is "diseased" unlike the other religions which aren't a race. Well, not me specifically because according to the Wikipedia page here I am a Mischling or half-Jew and thus only halfway diseased because as you said being Jewish is genetic and a disease and I am only half. I still don't understand how converting away grom Judaism to become a member of another religion cures these genetic diseases. Oh that's right it is a race and so it is impossible for Jews to convert. You know the Catholic Inquisition had the same idea and murdered a bunch of Conversos or Jews who converted. Going to side with the Holocaust Survivor on what is and isn't antisemitic and not the dude who quoted Adolf Hitler ashis ideologies were fact. 2603:7000:4600:358A:E975:72ED:AD86:A922 (talk) 12:34, 10 September 2024 (UTC) As if* not ashis 2603:7000:4600:358A:E975:72ED:AD86:A922 (talk) 12:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC) I have no idea what you're talking about, but please tone down your personal rhetoric. I would never quote Mein Kampf and as you can see from my edits, I am a defender of Jews and Jewishness and I am strongly anti-fascist. Some Jewish groups do have higher prevalence of genetic diseases due to endogamy. It's not due to religion, as Judaism is an ethnoreligion, which means there's considerable shared ancestry within Jewish groups. Obviously, a Jewish person who is a Tay-Sachs carrier would not in any way ameliorate their condition by converting to Catholicism. Endogamy evolved due to the tendency of Jewish people to marry other Jews, though some were converts of course. Jews lived separately from their Christian and Muslim neighbors in many of the places where they lived in the medieval and early modern period and into the modern era, with separate social, economic, and political institutions, while assimilation is largely a 19th and 20th century phenomenon for the bulk of modern Jewish groups. Andre🚐 18:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC) You can go back into the reverts and find it. You scrubbed this page and the person who you banned after quoting Mein Kampft to them. They found the book took what you said and compared it to a verbatim quote from the book. You're personally distorting the Holocaust and the research of a Survivor by refusing to recognize your antisemitism and the antisemitism of this Wikipedia page. A strong defender of Judaism wouldn't contribute to propaganda on Wikipedia which only dehumanizes those of the Jewish religion. One of the more recent wipes and scrubs of this page revealed this on their Talk as someone search all of Wikipedia for "Genetic Studies of" and the only religious demographic on Wikipedia being harassed by this bigotry is the Jewish community. Someone who converts away from Judaism is no longer considered Jewish by the Jewish community. The ideology that Jews have a distinct shared ancestry is a Christian ideology developed in the Book of Matthew. Within the Torah there are several cases of converts, the most famous being probably Ruth or Rachel who "sat on the idols of her Father's house" and corrected her lineage as she wasn't a concubine or directly related. Then there are several famous adoptions such as Esther who was adopted into a Jewish family and has a whole holiday which revolves around her being mistaken as a non-Jew because she was adopted by Mordechai or Bal Shem Tov who was also adopted. Additionally, this ideology means that the Israelites followed a pagan because Moshe married Tzipporah who wasn't Jewish but was converted and blessed by G-D. Like you Miriam was being a racist and so G-D cured her to make her a leper. Finally, the Tribal associations at the end of the first book of the Torah do not match those in the final book because it isn't genetic or else the Tribes would have remained the same. From a secular side Oswald Rufeisen was refused their Birthright because they converted to become a Catholic Priest. There is also Sabbatai Zevi who was declared an Apostate for similar ideologies regarding Judaism and hosting an orgy ontop of a Torah during the Shabbat. The founder of the Modern Orthodox movement Azriel Hildesheimer was also declared a non-Jew legally in Hungary after being sued by thr Orthodox Jewish community following the First Hungarian Jewish Congress. As such they were forced to distinguish themselves separately and thus became "Modern" Orthodox. Later the movement left for Berlin where the Conservative and Reform movement did the same during the First Synod. As such the movement came to the USA and endorsed the American Eugenics Movement. The Jewish community here attempted to sue but the case never went to court as the Holocaust began. However, as previously cited, the Judaeans and the Jewish Academy of Sciences held a public form where they denounced their eugenics ideologies as Hitlerism. Now here is the kicker. You're claiming the Jewish people are endogamic but the Torah forbids such marriages by pain of death. As such there is a Shidduch who arranges marriages to ensure endogamy is not present. However, under Catholism there were the Limpieza de sangre or Purity of Blood statutes which forbade non-endogamic marriages and marriages to non-Catholics. The Inquisition kept records which presist to this day of several Jews and Muslims intermarrying as well as the exile of Catholics who married Jews or Muslims. Opposite of this there are plenty of records of Jewish communities accepting these converts such as Abraham Zacuto who became a Jewish pirate following the passage of the Alhambra Decree as one parent of theirs converted. Integration is also not at all modern. The Story of Hanukkah is about the integration with the Greeks who also depicted being Jewish as a race like the Egyptians. As such the Maccabbees killed their Hellenistic priest. Prior to that there is the conversion of the Canaanites by Abraham as he got his army to fight the War of Four on Five from somewhere and the Torah does not hide that there were converted. Infact there is a story about it. Or the virign daughters of the Midianites who were converted at the conclusion of a war. More recently there is the Khzara conversion which took place during the 8th and 9th century by the Christian calendar. Genetics don't matter the soul does. I am quite surprised that you have continually denied the scope and facts of both the Inquisition and Holocaust to insinuate that the Jewish people are 'predominantly inbred and diseased' rather than a religion. Maybe this article from thr US National Holocaust Memorial Museum miggt jog your memory about when you decided to quote Mein Kampft as fact. "The Nazis defined Jews by race, not religion. They claimed that Jews belonged to a separate race. They also claimed that Jews were inferior to all other races. The Nazi definition of Jews included people who did not practice Judaism." https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nazi-racism It is a religion and I really don't think you know what you're talking about. I am pretty positive you're just a antisemitic since you're literally willing to do what you have done here to the legacy of Raphael Falk. 2603:7000:4600:358A:E975:72ED:AD86:A922 (talk) 19:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC) Your commens are chock full of WP:OR and inappropriate WP:POV material that will not be used on Wikipedia. Your personal opinions are not enough to change the articles. I suggest you find something else to do if you want to contribute here. Andre🚐 20:00, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Questionable sourcing?

Someone verify these many informations?: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetic_studies_of_Jews&diff=prev&oldid=1256248852, as these persons were reverted here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beta_Israel&diff=prev&oldid=1258257377 and fake article they made was deleted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Judeo-Ge%27ez, but still on French Wiki: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Ge%27ez 41.222.180.254 (talk) 08:32, 25 November 2024 (UTC)