Talk:George Hibbert

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George Hibbert (ship, 1804)

This Article says the model ship on the Hibbert Gate is the "George Hibbert", a barque built in London in 1804. c. 1834, it was used to transport convicts to Australia.

Was this ship actually built in 1803?

This piece says the ship is The Hibbert (1785-1813) which was one of the largest vessels in the West India trade at the turn of the 19th century. See https://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.person.bm000044708. Which is correct? Are there two ships? Broichmore (talk) 15:18, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Step 1: George Hibbert, of 326 tons (bm), Thames-built, first appears in Lloyd's Register in the supplemental pages for 1803 with launch year of 1803. She is the only George Hibbert in the volume for 1804. The Register of Shipping for 1804 also carries her with an 1803 launch year. She was definitely a West Indiaman. Hackman (2001; p.279), has her being broken condemned at Coringa, India in 1835 as unseaworthy and being sold for breaking up.

Step 2: looking into "The Hibbert" (1785 ship). Will revert. Acad Ronin (talk) 16:32, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

There is a Hibberts in both the 1804 Lloyd's Register and the Register of Shipping. She was launched on the Thames in 1784, and is of 405 tons (bm), which is not particularly large for a West Indiaman. There is also a Hibberts, of 439 tons (bm), launched in Whitby in 1818. Acad Ronin (talk) 16:47, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

My guess is that the 1784 Hibbert is the gate Hibbert; i.e., the JSTOR article is right. Normally I would do a couple of articles, but I have my hands full dealing with the notability police deleting my existing articles. Also, although the 1784 Hibbert was captured and recaptured in 1804, I suspect there is not enough to make her WP Notable. The George Hibbert is another story; her convict voyage to Australia in 1834 would probably buy her some safety. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:29, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Here is a comparison of the two models. First the original model, and second the modern (perhaps researched) reproduction for comparison. --Broichmore (talk) 19:03, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Cool. Acad Ronin (talk) 11:09, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

The earlier one seems to be always given as Hibberts in the registers; also the Shipowners volume for 1811 has "captured" (the Underwriters catch up in the following year).

Although George Hibbert was a barque by the time she went to Australia (from c1830), both vessels were built as full-rigged ships, as seen in the models. Davidships (talk) 02:07, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

I will probably end up doing an article on George Hibbert, and a shipindex page that will carry all three vessels.Acad Ronin (talk) 11:11, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Acad Ronin DavidshipsThank you both for your efforts. Now I need to rename a couple of images and create a commons category. I'm suggesting Hibbert (ship, 1803) on the basis that the registers of the time using The Hibbert and Hibberts meant in essence Hibbert. The point being to be compatible with any future article? Thoughts? --Broichmore (talk) 14:28, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

I would suggest the title for the commons category be simply "Hibbert (ship)". The directories and Lloyd's List are quite clear in using George Hibbert for the 1803 ship and Hibbert/Hibbert for the other vessels. I am a little concerned that the images are actually of Hibbert (1784 ship). The gate was built in 1800 to 1802, which makes it marginally more likely that the model is the 1784 than the 1803. I trust the plant article that you found slightly more that I trust the WP article. Still, go with your gut instinct. Whichever you choose we can always fix it if we need to should more definitive info become available. I would request though that in refering to the ships themselves, you use the formula "Hibbert (1784 ship)", or "George Hibbert (1803 ship)". Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:28, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Hibberts (1784 ship)

Broichmore Davidships: I have found a highly reliable secondary source that unambiguously states that the ship on the gate is Hibbert (ship)#Hibberts (1784 ship). I have changed the text in the article here to reflect this, complete with citation/reference (see page 446). Acad Ronin (talk) 23:23, 2 February 2023 (UTC)