Talk:George Warburton (footballer, born 1915)

Requested move 15 June 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 17:37, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

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• George Warburton (footballer, born 1915) → George Warburton (English footballer)
• George Warburton (footballer, born 1934) → George Warburton (Welsh footballer)

– Quoting from WP:NCPDAB:

• "The disambiguator is usually a noun indicating what the person is noted for being": a footballer, fine so far.
• "Sometimes disambiguators need to be more specific", as in this case: there are two footballers with the same name.
• "[F]ailing a practical single qualifier"—they both played association football—"the disambiguator can be expanded with a second qualifier: e.g. Roger Taylor (Queen drummer)". This is what I'm suggesting; the most obvious second qualifier is nationality, which reflects the lead sentence of each article and the categories the articles are in.
• "Years of birth and death are not normally used as disambiguators […] although this may be necessary when there are multiple people with the same name and tag." Not the case here: there are no other English footballers or Welsh footballers of this name.
• "Where the disambiguation can't be resolved in a straightforward manner by such more specific qualifiers" (and in this case it can) then "date of birth can be added". This clearly means that "format: Name (qualifier, born YYYY)" is a last resort when no other means of disambiguation work.
• The same argument could apply to numerous other footballer articles, and there's no reason why footballers should be special cases: WP:NCSP says "Disambiguation of sportsperson article titles should follow the general conventions as much as possible, just like any other Wikipedia article." Opera hat (talk) 10:07, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 07:39, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose- it is standard (and there is a longstanding convention at WP:FOOTBALL) to use DOB for footballers because nationbality is fluid and using nationality as a describer can be ambiguous given the number of variants of football around the world. GiantSnowman 07:41, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. Whether they should be special cases or not, footballers are among the special cases at WP:NCSP and have been so for a number of years; if you want that to change, I'd advise seeking a new consensus at an appropriate venue. Two reasons for opposing:
  1. WP:NCSP#Association football (soccer) requires the "most conclusive" of birth year or nationality. The quote above from WP:NCPDAB with the ellipsis is actually relevant here in full: Years of birth and death are not normally used as disambiguators (readers are more likely to be seeking this information than to already know it), although this may be necessary when there are multiple people with the same name and tag. (my highlighting). Birth years of 1915 or 1934 imply playing before or after the Second World War respectively which, for two fairly obscure footballers, the reader might well be more likely to know than which bit of the United Kingdom they were eligible to represent.
  2. Mr Warburton born 1915 isn't English. He was born in The Hague to an English father, and that makes him British, not English. As Welsh is a subset of British, it can't reasonably be used as a disambiguator. Struway2 (talk) 08:55, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose not least because the older Warburton cannot reliably be described as English -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:43, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.