Talk:Georgian conjugation

Corrections?

If any native Georgian speakers with a good knowledge of grammar happen across this page, I'd be grateful if they could check the accuracy of the comments and the conjugations (esp. class 2, 3, and 4), since I am not fluent myself and was working without explicit guidance as to each individual form. Ta. Dazma 00:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I'm not a native speaker, but it seems that, in his Learner's Grammar, Hewitt translates vuc'er as "I write for/on behalf of him/her", not "I write to him/her" as stated in the Direct Objects section of this article, with the latter being translated by Hewitt as "vc'er". I'm going to edit the relevant section now on these grounds but I would of course urge any native speakers to verify this.--Scvrkls (talk) 15:48, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

@Scvrkls: v-ts'er is 2-person verb and is thus "I am writing it"; v-u-ts'er is 3-person verb and is thus "I am writing it to/for him/her"; Additionally objective versioner adds a new person (indirect object) to the verb, and it does not "for Class I verbs change the role of the indirect object to that of benefactor of the action or possessor of the direct object" because if the verb is already a 3-person verb, it does not go through versioner shifts: v-a-dzl-ev (I am giving it to him/her) is a 3-person verb and, as Shanidze would say, belongs to versionless verb group. Thank you for taking interesting in Georgian! :D -Solarkoid (talk) 12:23, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Any sources?

In addition to the earlier request for native speakers to check this material for accuracy, it would be great if some sources could be cited. I'd positively love to know if there's an interactive web site anywhere where the user could plug in a verb and see it analysed — and/or be able to plug in a verb (root or infinitive), select subject / object(s), tense, aspect, mood, etc., and see the result. Richwales (talk) 18:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

It'd be nice to have a morphological transducer somewhere, but I don't know of one. But there is a book, "The Georgian Verb: A Morphosyntactic Analysis", by Damana Melikishvili, J. Daniel Humphries, and Maia Kupunia, and published by Dunwoody Press in 2008. Mcswell (talk) 21:24, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Do "pre-radical vowel" and "versioner" mean the same thing?

In the page I've noticed the two terms "pre-radical vowel" and "versioner" used for what I believe is the same thing, but Georgian verbs being so difficult and I being just a learner, I can't be sure. It would be great to either use just the one term everywhere or even better to state clearly somewhere that the two terms are interchangeable.

Or if my assumption is wrong then please make that clear so everybody can understand. — Hippietrail (talk) 15:18, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

After more studying I am now sure these are two terms which refer to the same thing.

Though pre-radical vowel seems to be specifically about the slot in the verb template just before the verb stem, which sometimes has functions other than what discussions of version mostly focus on. — Hippietrail (talk) 12:36, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I suppose that what is meant is version marker. Please refer to Georgian verb template on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_grammar. I am afraid the same term versioner (accidentally, this is the same as the Swedish for the plural of version) is used on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_verb_paradigm, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Georgian_verbs, Georgian verb lemmata on https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/თესვა, etc. Did anyone substitute versioner for version marker? Redav (talk) 20:47, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Citations

I have near to 0 knowledge of the Georgian Language, but after some searching through books I have access to I have been able to add references to Georgian - A learner's grammar 2nd Edition and to a document on Georgian verbs by a professor at Illia State University. I've linked the document from the University in the reference if anyone wants to use it to reference any other parts of the article. - Cdjp1 (talk) 15:45, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Kind of new 'sections' for me.

Is this the general layout of classes in Georgian based on English/Foreign researches?

Generally Georgian grammar books break down it in 4 classes: I, mostly, guess it's kind of correct, tho Anyways the 4 class verb types are as follows:

1. Active verbs (Which are transitive so that checks out)
2. Dynamic passive verbs (Describing ongoing actions in passive voice) [They are intransitive but saying only intransitive verbs is, in my opinion, wrong, because other 2 classes also contain intransitive verbs]
3. Medioactive verbs (Not medial, medial voice has 2 subvoices: Medioactive which acts like an active verb and mediopassive, which, accordingly, acts like a passive verb)
4. Static/Stative passive verbs (Describing resultative actions in passive voice) and mediopassive verbs. (I guess the description mentions stative verbs)

Now specialties of each one are mentioned already in the article, I'm not gonna polish it even if I wanted to because I'm afraid of getting something wrong. Anyways, something that wasn't listed or was badly said (imo) is

1. Class 1 verbs become inversive (The uses of subject and object markers become SWITCHED, it was only said for the 1st person singular, but it's generally a whole morphosyntactic thing. However, in class 1 verbs, inversion is only morphological (only affecting the verb paradigm).
2. In class 2 verbs it is kind of a big thing to have -i after -eb- which is not done in Class 1 for example. Also in class 2, v-i-bad-eb-i (I am being born)and v-e-bad-eb-i (I am being born for/to someone else/him/her/it) have 2 different morphological perfective series forms, I think this is worth mentioning:
   • Non-past: (da-)v-i-bad-eb-i
   • Past/Aorist: da-v-i-bad-e
   • Perfect: da-v-bad-eb-ul-var and
   • Non-past: (da-)v-e-bad-eb-i
   • Past/Aorist: da-v-e-bad-e
   • Perfect: da-v-bad-eb-i-var
3. In class 3 verbs (or generally medial verbs) generally preverb is not used, if it is, it is used for differentiating movement direction and not tense, unlike in class 1.
4. Also some class 3 verbs seem to act differently: p'at'ronobs is a dipersonal verb but in perfect it goes down to unipersonal and the object becomes a word with postposition -tvis. ana bavshv-s p'at'ron-ob-s - Ana is taking care of (her) kid. ana-s bavshv-is-tvis u-p'at'ron-eb-i(-)a - Ana has apparently taken care of her kid. While ana sach'mel-s q'id-ul-ob-s - Ana is buying food. vs. ana-s sach'mel-i u-q'id-i(-)a here object is not turned into a postpositional phrase.
5. I think for class 4 verbs, there should be a second example on stative passive verbs like ts'er-i-a because this is actually a big thing in Georgian morphology where -i-a complex is created, generally a overpowers i, and due to that fact, i often disappears: v-tb-eb-i -> tb-eb-a.
6. "Since the verb does not have an aorist form, and uses the imperfect instead (as many other class 4 verbs)" Well good it was mentioned as 'many other class 4 verbs' instead of all class 4 verbs, because some verbs (and especially one I mentioned "ts'er-i(-)a" only has present indicative from present circle of 1st series. So it's either that it doesn't have Imp. and Pr. Subj. or Aorist and Optative.

And a tip, I, personally, consider https://www.amazon.com/Georgian-Reading-Grammar-English/dp/0893572071 this book better than Hewitt's learners grammar. I am personally using Georgian resources myself since I can, and I'll try to help along on these kinds of pages, though I don't think I'll be able to on my own. Solarkoid (talk) 16:31, 3 August 2020 (UTC)