Talk:Georgios Karaiskakis

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 15:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC) Caraiscu ce avea daca il numeati? Asa v-ati mistificat toata istoria, bai grecoteilor cu nas subtire, vorba lui Eminescu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.26.140.115 (talk) 10:37, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Not of Arvanite descent

The supposed source that was used to backed up the claim that Karaiskakis was of Arvanite origin is completely irrelevant and hardly of any historical value. How on earth the book “Monuments of Orthodoxy in Albania” has anything to do with the subject.?? Especially when this book is a publication of a private high school (Dookas school) about the architecture of the Orthodox buildings in Albania! Don't forget that according to WP:IRS:"Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." Hardly the case for a private publication about architecture
Further more no were in any real historical or ethnological work Karaiskakis is mentioned as Arvanite. He is not known to be Arvanite (like Botsaris), he never mention himself as Arvanite (and there are a lot of his saying survived). And above all none of his biographer (such as Dimitris Fotiadis or Ainian) ever mention his origin as Arvanite. What we do know is that his mother was of Sarakatsani descent since she was cousin of George Bakolas who was a known Sarakatsani Armatolos. I have also added a source about his Sarakatsani origin and it is the only one that can properly cited since it is not a private high school publication but on the contrary is from a book written by Richard Clogg a British historian know for his work in Greek revolution and in Greek history in general.. Seleukosa (talk) 01:23, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I found this

[1] Beserks (talk) 08:14, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Hardly anything close to a source. You really want us to put as a source a magazine about literary criticism(sic) which has a passage from someone unknown guy who says :" I read that....". Is a letter from someone? an essay? The guy who wrote it is a historian? or a reader? Obviously not of any value. We don't use as sources parts like "I read". or "I've heard", or "I was told" etc. (Besides the fact that it even claims Makriyannis as Arvanite!). Again I have to ask the Albanian editors to stop to add information that is known as wrong. Also be carefull not to remove real sources from real historians.Seleukosa (talk) 08:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, i see that some albanian users are just trying to find any reference,without having the ability and the historical knowledge to judge if those "sources" are accurate or not, in order to falsify some personalities' origin.But,in wikipedia is not requested "any" source but a reliable source! Sulmues source is just an album of orthodox monasteries in Albania made by a philologist(not an historian)and researcher of orthodox monuments and by a profesor of photography,who don't provide any reference which would justify their claim.And of course Sulmues is not capable to provide further references to support the reliability of his source. As far as the second "source", Seleukosa is right! The fact is that there is no historical reference that Karaiskakis was of arvanite origin or that he spoke arvanitika.Both his father's and his mother's villages were greek speaking villages. It's high time some users left their agenda and focus on the historical truth.Wikipedia is read by millions of people,so it should not lose his reliabilty by this kind of tactics and sources.LeucippusE. (talk) 12:53, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

You probably meant Beserks, right? --Sulmues ^(talk) 17:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

As I see Beserk;s source is a snippet from a magazine of 1904 (original version). I can hardly say that this can be considered the most appropriate source on the subject.Alexikoua (talk) 15:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

The main biography about Karaiskakis is the one written by the historian Demitrios Ainian who was his personal Secretary. Tittled : “Biography of General Georgiou Karaiskaki by his private secretary Demitrios Ainian”. This is the most important since Ainian is an eye witness in many incidents and he has recorded many of Karaiskakis own words. No were in his book there is any hint or suspicion that Karaiskakis was of Arvanite origin. I personally own it and I can verify for it (This biography can be found in the Internet and it is written in an easily understandable Kathareousa Greek). There is also a more smaller and concise biography written by a Georgios Gazis fellow warrior of Karaiskais who also served for a period as a secretary for him. Again no were there is the slightest hint for any Arvanite origin. Another great historian who is considered an authority about the Greek revolution is Demitrios Fotiadis. He has written the best biography that exist about Karaiskakis. (Dimitris Fotiadis, Karaiskakis) His work is monumental and a mast source. No were he mentions any Arvanite origin. He is on the contrary mentions that he was raised in a Sarakatsani family(not his own family). I personally own his 4 volume work “History of Greek revolution” were again there isn't anything about Arvanite origin. I do inted to add many important facts from these books but my time is limmeted for the time being. Since the best historical works about Karaiskakis mention nothing about Arvanite origin it is impossible to find anyone else saying the opposite. Mainly because every historian who wants to write anything about Karaiskakis is going definitely to use Ainian’s work as a source.

What we do know is that his mother was of Sarakatsani decent. Mainly because she was a relative to Gogos Bakolas who was a prominent Sarakatsani Armatolos. Even if his father was Dimitrios Iskos (by the way we are not so sure but most historians agree about it) that also add to his Sarakatsani decent since Iskos was also a known Sarakatsani. This can also be verified by a third party historian such as Richard Clogg whose work provided the appropriate source. The other “supposed sources” that have appeared in this article are either completely unreliable since none of them is historical or ethnological work or some content has be presented out of context. {Further more it should have given a hint to some editors that Karaiskakis birthplace in Agrafa/Karditsa region (or Skoulikaria) is a known Sarakatsani dominant area were the Arvanite presence is very limited (if there is any)}.Seleukosa (talk) 12:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Karaiskaki Square in Athens

It is worth noting that Karaiskaki Square in Athens is presumably named after Giorgios Karaiskakis. The square is decorataed with several sculptures, including a very striking depiction of Icarus plummeting to earth.

Philhellene (talk) 09:52, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Birthplace

The Greek wiki suggests there is some doubts regarding Karaiskakis' actual birthplace - it's either Skoulikaria in Arta or Mavrommati in Karditsa. I'm going to add something in the English wiki to reflect this. Juggertrout (talk) 15:14, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

POV-pushing using low quality sources.

There is consensus among the literature that Karaiskakis was of Sarakatsani descent. The sources claiming otherwise are of low quality [2]. What on earth is Οι πατρίδες των Ελλήνων: Μικρά Ασία, Κωνσταντινούπολη, Ανατ. Θράκη, Ανατ. Ρωμυλία, Πελαγονία, Βόρ. Ήπειρος, page 514. Author, title, year, publisher?. As for Keridis, that is a dictionary that falls under WP:TERTIARY, and is explicitly contradicted by multiple secondary sources, some of which I have added to the article. Khirurg (talk) 23:39, 14 September 2023 (UTC)