Talk:Geraint Thomas

Revisions

Why was the last revision made? The previous version seems far more complete to me! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blogdroed (talk • contribs) 14:54, June 4, 2007.

It was. I've reverted the unexplained blanking. Severo^TC 21:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Country

It is fair to say that Geraint Thomas rides for both Wales in the Commonwealth Games and Great Britain at the Olympic Games. To remove one or the other implies bias and causes arguments from both sides of the fence - those who only want to see Wales, and others who insist on GBR. See Talk:Chris Hoy for a recent similar discussion. Hence as I put in my Edit summary - keep both to save arguments.Thaf (talk) 14:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I understand the argument about Chris Hoy. If he feels British good luck to him. However, arguments about Chris Hoy should be made, and remain, on that article. Geraint Thomas has a Welsh forename and surname, he was born in Cardiff and is even quoted in this article saying "It would be great to do a lap of honour draped in the Welsh flag if I win a gold medal ..." So you can't doubt his Welsh credentials. You say "It is fair to say that Geraint Thomas rides for both Wales in the Commonwealth Games and Great Britain at the Olympic Games." Yes he does. And he is already noted separately as being a competitor for Wales and for Great Britain. I didn't change that and wouldn't want to remove it, as that would be incorrect. I only want to remove the United Kingdom from the infobox as Geraint Thomas' country. His country is noted as Wales. Anyone who wishes to learn where Wales is can easily navigate to the article about that name. Wales is a country of the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom, therefore, in this context, is redundant. Providing further locations for a country in articles like this would make it very cluttered and difficult to read. You wouldn't want to include the fact that the United Kingdom was in Europe, for example. Furthermore, why is it that Chris Newton's country is noted only as England despite him being an Olympic medalist representing Britain, for example? Many other athletes are shown only as being British, or representing Great Britain/United Kingdon. As you must know, most people see the Union Flag and read it as England. There has long been a tendency to be shown as British if you're Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish, and English if you're English. I'm just trying to get some balance here. Daicaregos (talk) 17:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I note that I have not had the courtesy of a response to a single point made in my last post. I can only conclude that my arguments are considered as irrefutable and, consequently, have tacit agreement to delete the name of the redundant state from the personal information section of the infobox. Yours Daicaregos (talk) 08:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you should assume good faith? There are many reason why someone may not have yet replied to you and discussions on Wikipedia can and do go on a long time. I think I covered many of these points in my post below. To start, if the arguments regarding the Chris Hoy article aren't relevant here, then neither are those with Chris Newton: you can't have it both ways! Now in the lede (the most important bit) it notes Thomas is a "Welsh racing cyclist". In the infobox it notes that Thomas competes for the UK/GB and Wales. To give Wales prominence here is to give it undue bias because most of the time, when competing for a national team, Thomas is competing for GB. It is only for one competition every four years that Thomas competes for Wales. Now the infobox must cover sporting nationality i.e. who he competes for. This is in line with every other sportsperson infobox. The idea that "You wouldn't want to include the fact that the United Kingdom was in Europe, for example" is irrelevant because he has never competed for Europe. As Thomas competes for Wales and GB, nether is redundant. If you want to fight an anti-English war, this article isn't the place to do it (try Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias perhaps). There is nothing controversial about the way nationality is described within this article. Severo^TC 10:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for addressing the issues. I parked the Chris Hoy reference because that argument appears to concern a separate Scottish Olympic team entry and sports funding in Scotland and so, not relevant here. The Chris Newton reference was, and is, relevant because Thaf stated that 'To remove one or the other {nationality} implies bias and causes arguments from both sides of the fence' so she decided 'to keep both nationalities'. However, Chris Newton's article has only his English nationality noted in the personal information infobox and has no Medal Table Infobox showing that he won Olympic medals representing Britain at the Games in Sydney and Athens. Thaf was not only the creator of the article, but continues to be a major contributor (to her great credit). If one says one thing and does another, it is quite legitimate that it be highlighted (please note that I do not advocate the inclusion of British nationality in Chris Newton's personal information infobox, but the addition of a Medal Table Infobox showing the medals he won representing Britain). You say 'In the infobox it notes that Thomas competes for the UK/GB and Wales'. You may be confusing the personal information infobox and the Medal Table Infobox. In the personal information infobox there is no need to note that Geraint Thomas' country is United Kingdom, as in this context, as noted above, it is redundant. You go on to say that 'As Thomas competes for Wales and GB, nether is redundant.' For whom Geraint Thomas competes is not part of his personal information, but relates to his Medal Table Infobox. By the way, your accusation that I 'want to fight an anti-English war' implies that I am racist. Your ad hominem argument is both untrue and a WP:personal attack. Please be WP:Civil. Maybe you should assume good faith? You are also mistaken in your contention that 'This is in line with every other sportsperson infobox.' There are many different sportspersons infoboxes, including numerous examples where athletes have only their own country noted, including Chris Newton's. Yours Daicaregos (talk) 12:28, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

You ignore my argument that a sportspersons infobox (I'm not referring to medal table at all here, for it is not an infobox) should note their sporting nationality. This is asserted in MOS:ICON, "Flags should never indicate the player's nationality in a non-sporting sense; flags should only indicate the sportsperson's national squad/team or sporting nationality." Indeed, within the MOS, there is also the statement "Flags should generally illustrate the highest level the sportsperson is associated with." I think the Olympics are higher than the Commonwealth Games so there is an argument for removing Wales altogether. We need to be clear here: in a sporting sense, strict "nationality" does not matter; it is "sporting nationality" that does. The MOS is clear on this one and I state again, there is nothing controversial about the way nationality is described within this article. Severo^TC 12:47, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

just reading whats been written. Personally I think it should just have "place of birth" with his place of birth named. This page is completely inconsistent with most other cyclists pages that do just that. Having two flags there is just silly. 90.195.108.52 (talk) 22:03, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

To all the Plaid Cymru supporters who wrote rubbish about him not being British: "Well it has been a great year wearing the national champs jersey. To wear the red, white and blue stripes all over the world representing the UK has been an honour." http://www.geraintthomas.com/british-road-race-championships 5.151.61.150 (talk) 16:18, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

• I really do not see what the problem is with saying that he races for both Wales and Great Britain. He is the first Welsh cyclist to win the Tour de France - this is surely notable enough to be mentioned in the article. Vorbee (talk) 17:27, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Language

This article is about Geraint Thomas, not Cardiff, the native language translation appears on the Cardiff article and this is sufficient. Providing translations for all Welsh words and names in articles like this would make it very cluttered and difficult to read, anyone who wishes to learn a translation can easily navigate to the article about that name.Thaf (talk) 14:41, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I was perhaps a little ambiguous in my edit summary earlier. WP:MOS says "Foreign words should be used sparingly". This is the English-language Wikipedia, so where there is a common English language name, then that is used. Whether a foreign name is more common is talked about at the talk page of that article and then used across Wikipedia. For example, if you look on the talk page of Côte d'Ivoire you will notice there has been much debate about the correct name for the article, wither there or at Ivory Coast. Where the article is placed determines pretty much everything else, such as categories and - yes - inward links. We use the name of the article only. The great thing about Wikipedia is that someone can then click on that link and learn more about that subject. For example, by clicking on the link to Wales (well, currently one of two links in the first line which I will fix!!), I learn that it is a country of the United Kingdom, of three million people and two languages and so on. To sum up, this is the English language Wikipedia, and through the articles, the common name, as determined by where the linked article is at, is used throughout.

Onto the Infobox "nationality" field, an NPOV stance determines that anything is not given undue bias. As Thomas competes for Wales once every four years, his sporting nationality (which is what matters with sportspeople) is borderline Welsh. However, with UK cyclists, we are usually happy to put both UK or GB AND SCO/ENG/NIR/WAL/IOM (as IOM is part of British Cycling) as this doesn't overpromote any one of their identities. It fulfils an NPOV stance.

This should clear such issues up. Severo^TC 17:18, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here. It is an encyclopedia, after all. And I was trying to give some further, intriguing, information on the athlete. i.e. that the country he's from has, as you quite rightly say, two languages. If you don't think it adds anything to your article, fair enough. But I doubt that many people would click on the link to Wales otherwise, especially as it has the United Kingdom immediately beneath it. (Please refer to the country string above) Yours, Daicaregos (talk) 17:49, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

External links modified

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Family

Tried to add info about his family to this article but you are trying to entrap me into signing up. No thanks.

Here's the info if any of the gatekeepers can be bothered adding it:

He is the first son of Howell Thomas, son of a farmer from Bancyfelin, Carmarthenshire,

That link is dead. Is Howell Thomas or his father the farmer, as I'm not sure how relevant Geraint's grandfather's profession is. Spike 'em (talk) 07:33, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

This source says "The man of the moment has family links with Bancyfelin, west of Carmarthen". There's more (somewhat surprising) detail about tiny Bancyfelin here Martinevans123 (talk) 12:28, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

References

Hi

I hate wikipidia its rubish — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.32.197.103 (talk) 07:53, 22 June 2020 (UTC)