Talk:Germanic dragon

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2020 and 15 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sydney394.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:23, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled

i have removed the original content of this article due to it being fairly nonsensical:

"So far there is only one mention of a so called Norse Dragon in mythology. In Norse myths, the world will end by a dragon called Ragnarok. Ragnarok will release Fenrir from his chains, and cause a battle between the gods. Fenrir will then swallow the sun and leave a bleak darkness. Loki will fight against Ragnarok, but fail leaving complete darkness, for Ragnarok will also swallow the rest of the gods."

this seems to be someones imagination mixing names and events from Norse mythology into their own fairytale. article now links to "Nidhogg" article (the name of the "norse dragon")

Merger#Germanic dragon

There is strong cultural overlap on this topic among the Germanic peoples. Fafnir, one of the most famous dragons discussed here is part of a tradition attested in English, German and North Germanic sources. The page is more in depth and contains essentially all the information in this page with the exception of some references to which sagas have dragons which could be added to the new page. --Ingwina (talk) 21:39, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, as long as the merge is done in a way that all information, including the name "Norse dragon" and the linguistic bits are preserved and kept available in some form in the proposed target article. Daranios (talk) 11:03, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Creating a new article and then trying to merge an existing one into it is a move. Oppose the merge on these grounds. Would not oppose a move of this article if people think Germanic dragon is a more appropriate title. Lithopsian (talk) 19:40, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

My apologies if I've used the wrong terminology - I used this page as a starting point for making the new one so I guess a move may be the correct term? Either way, I think all the important information is on the "Germanic dragon" page including linguistic information with a little extra to discuss ormr and OE cognates. If anything important is missed though I'm happy to try and rework the page to include it. The term "Germanic" over "Norse" is the grouping used in pages such as "Dragon" and "European dragon" while also allowing us to cover dragons such as that in Beowulf, Niblungenlied and later Northumbrian folklore (which shares a lot of features with Norse dragons) so it is my preferred term (making Norse dragon a redirect) but I'm keen to hear what you all think about the name too. Ingwina (talk) 07:58, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

All that notwithstanding, this article should either have been expanded and renamed, or renamed and expanded, whichever you prefer, - subject to agreement to the page rename, which so far nobody has objected to - not create a brand new article and then attempt to throw this one away. Marges can be made, but attribution becomes difficult to follow, and it shouldn't be done when it doesn't need to be. Lithopsian (talk) 14:27, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Okay right - I didn't know pages could be renamed - that's my mistake. The new article is essentially built from this one but I do get the distinction. If people do agree to the name, what is the procedure given how the pages are currently set up? Work the new content into this page and then rename it, while making "Norse dragons" as a new page that redirects to the new one? Forgive my lack of experience with this side of things.--Ingwina (talk) 17:22, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

In simple cases where there is no article at the new title, you would be able to move this page to a new name yourself. There should be a button somewhere, possibly on a "more" menu, depending on your skin. You can't do this if there is already a page with non-trivial history at the new title, which there is now. So you can either start a move request, or you can get rid of the new article and then do the rename yourself. As effectively the sole author of Germanic dragon, you can blank it and request a speedy deletion. Or request a technical speedy deletion because it is holding up a page move. You might want to create the article you're aiming for here before doing any of those things, so it is more convincing that it should be renamed. If you think there could be any argument about the move, then you should hold a move discussion anyway. Lithopsian (talk) 18:51, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Okay great - I'll get that in motion and we can see if the community agrees with me with the rationale for the move.--Ingwina (talk) 20:49, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 28 February 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. "Germanic" better reflects the scope of the article (see also the section #Merger#Germanic dragon above and the big expansion/rewrite of late February [1]). There's less certainty about the remainder of the title – the default option remains Germanic dragon, but editors should feel free to move again after further formal or informal discussion at any time. (non-admin closure) – Uanfala (talk) 00:25, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

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Norse dragon → Germanic dragon – There is strong cultural overlap on this topic among the Germanic peoples regarding the role, appearance and terminology. Fafnir, one of the most famous dragons discussed here is part of a tradition attested in English, German and North Germanic sources. The term "Germanic" over "Norse" is the grouping used in pages such as "Dragon" and "European dragon" while also allowing us to cover dragons such as that in Beowulf, Niblungenlied and later Northumbrian folklore (which shares a lot of features with Norse dragons) so it is my preferred term (making Norse dragon a redirect.) Ingwina (talk) 08:05, 28 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 01:28, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

• Support alternate move to Dragons in Germanic mythology if it would make it easier to expand the article. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:36, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

My issue with in "mythology" alone is it wouldn't include folklore and customs. I am not too adverse to "Dragons in Germanic mythology and folklore" if "Germanic dragons" isn't to people's liking. I guess it's the same rationale as why this page isn't currently titled "Dragons in Norse mythology"--Ingwina (talk) 18:01, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.