Talk:Gerrard Street (Toronto)

Proposed renaming

I propose to rename this article to 'Gerrard Street East (Little India), because it is not about the whole street. Comments? RayGates 21:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd leave it alone, because it is a stub, and someone might come along and expand it to cover Chinatown East, etc. If the article gets renamed, we may end up someday with articles on both Gerrard East and Gerrard Street (Little India), which would just be overkill. Skeezix1000 21:40, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I've expanded it so that it is more than just Little India, which at this point anyway, doesn't really have enough to warrant its own article. If the article gets too big later, it can be branched out. Ground Zero | t 21:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Renaming of this article

There have been two recent renamings of this article, first on 2006-05-09 by Ummit from Gerrard Street East to Gerrard Street (Toronto). The second on 2006-06-08 by Terence Ong to Gerrard Street, Toronto.

The comment on the first renaming suggested that 'East' is not properly part of the name of the street. That is not true. Look at a map, and you will see that East and West are included in the Street names. However, since the article now discusses both east and west, I can accept the argument that 'East' be removed from the article name, but would prefer that both full names be included in the article text. I suggest creating additional redirect pages Gerrard Street East, Toronto and Gerrard Street West, Toronto, and I will do so myself if there are no objections in the next few days.

The second renaming refers to correcting the naming style. I don't know if there is an accepted naming style for streets in Wikipedia, but Category:Toronto_streets uses more in the (Toronto) style than it does in the , Toronto style, so the appropriate name changes should be applied to each.

All the links to the former page names should be redirected to avoid multiple redirects. It would be good if those doing the renaming would also take responsibility for fixing the links. RayGates 00:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Naming conventions

Discussion at Talk:List of roads in Toronto, Ontario Eco84 | Talk 00:33, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Comparison with other South Asian marketplaces in North America

The article states that this is the third largest South Asian marketplace in North America, after the ones on Jackson Heights in New York and Devon Avenue in Chicago. However, the Gerrard India Bazaar website ([1]) and various television spots claim that this in fact the largest. Can anyone provide some clarification? I've added a specify tag in that location. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.48.26 (talk) 15:52, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

"Gerrard India Bazaar" vs. "South Asian Bazaar"

Look, the official name of the areas -- as they sources in the article show -- is "Gerrard India Bazaar". See their website www.gerrardindiabazaar.com. No sources have been provided for "South Asian Bazaar", so renaming the section of the article as such constitutes original research, which is no permitted in Wikipedia. I have googled "South Asian Bazaar": the most common Canadian links are to a festival that took place at Yonge-Dundas Square. Beyond that, you get mirror sites for Wikipedia, i.e., copying what has sometimes appeared int his article, so these are not valid sources. Finally, you get some commercial sites that refer first to "Gerrard India Bazaar", and offer "South Asian Bazaar" as an alternative name.

Even the "Festival of South Asia" (presented by the Gerrard India Bazaar BIA -- see the City of Toronto website) describes itself as being "in the Gerrard India Bazaar" -- see their website here.

The Tourism Toronto website says: "Little India is home to the Gerrard India Bazaar, North America’s largest South Asian ethnic market."

So if you have reliable sources (i.e., better than the City of Toronto, Tourism Toronto and the local Business Improvement Association) that say that the area's name is South Asian Bazaar, please provide them. If it is just your opinion about what it should be called, it doesn't belong here. See WP:SOAPBOX. Ground Zero | t 12:29, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Right, but the sources would support calling it more generically a South Asian market, particularly Brouse. If you read that source, part of what you'll notice is that the non Muslim part of the area participates in the commercial association they have chosen to name Gerrard India Bazaar. It's just typical homeland tensions coming with the diaspora. The Pakistani/Muslim area hasn't participated in the commercial association for the most part according to Brouse, and so aren't represented in the name. She doesn't mention any of the people from Bangladesh, I'm not sure if that's because she isn't aware of the distinction or their numbers aren't large. Overall though, I think the best thing to do according to the best sources is just refer to it as a South Asian market, which all sources will support. And yes, continuing to change the article to suit one's views without sources to back them is disruptive and shouldn't continue. - Taxman ^Talk 13:19, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I take your point that Brouse notes that it is Hindu and Sikh merchants who have established the BIA: "In the past five years, the unofficial Gerrard India Bazaar has spread to the point where it almost spans the nine blocks from Greenwood to Coxwell. As it happens, the expansion on the west end comprises mostly Muslim-owned enterprises, which don’t pay the BIA levy but still reap the benefits. (Some say that the area would be better named Little Pakistan.)"

But neither Brouse nor any of the others sources say that it is called "South Asian Bazaar", and there does not seem to be a recognized or widely used alternative name. I will try to modify the article to illustrate this divide.

The problem that I am dealing with is that User:Bk2006 does not seem to like the fact that it is recognized as and called the Gerrard India Bazaar, and is trying to use Wikipedia to change this, something that an encyclopedia must not do. Ground Zero | t 17:43, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreed on the last part, but I don't see the need to make the article section title be the Merchant association name that only involves participation by half or less of the merchants in the area. Brouse and other sources do clearly support calling the area a South Asian market generically and I think that would be best from an NPOV standpoint. Using the name that one group prefers doesn't fit WP:NPOV#UNDUE when an alternative option that the sources support is available. I agree no sources use South Asian Bazaar, so I shouldn't have used that, but South Asian market would be fine as a section title. - Taxman ^Talk 16:03, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I understand your point, but the problem is that "GIB" is a recognized designation that is fairly well-known in Toronto, whereas "SA market" is a general term that may not be recognized by people looking for information on the topic. I am proposing a compromise that uses both, and have also re-ordered the paragraphs so that the discussion of the South Asian influence in the area precedes the discussion of the GIB, which I think is a more logical ordering as the GIB is sort of a subset of the SAm. I hope this works for you. Ground Zero | t 18:42, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Looks good. - Taxman ^Talk 12:09, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Glad to see you all came to a compromise. Bk2006 by the way has been blocked for a week by me for his edit summary attacking Indians, and has some other problems as well. Dougweller (talk) 07:39, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I see at least one of you will know about the edit and both of you are familiar with him. Do let me know if you think he starts using an IP address please. Dougweller (talk) 07:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

And if I'm not around, the IP can be blocked as a sock of an indefinitely blocked editor now, this time for block evasion and continued nationalistic insults. Dougweller (talk) 11:43, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Indians on Gerrard St.

User:110.36.29.55 has come back to try to remove references to Indians on Gerrard St. (even though the City of Toronto recognizes businesses along the stretch as being part of the Gerrard India Bazaar) on the basis that "I've never seen a single indian flag on that street. case closed."

A few points:

• There is an Indian flag on an establishments at 1432 Gerrard St. East.
• There are Indian flags alongside Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan flags at restaurants at 1388 Gerrard and on Avondale just north of Gerrard.
• Businesses at the following addresses on Gerrard St. East use "Indian" or "India" or an Indian place name in their names or advertising: 1401, 1405, 1417, 1424, 1426, 1423, 1425, 1427, 1429, 1431 and several others further to the east.

There are also businesses that fly the Pakistani and other south Asian flags and/or use "Pakistan", "Pakistani", or other south Asian terms in their names or advertising. The current version of the article reflects the multinational presence on the street. Ground Zero | t 16:38, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Its called Gerrard India Bazaar

Its called Gerrard India Bazzare.... and for a reason to AVOID POLITICS

Pakistanis...especially love the politics of boundaries. And they Pakistanis and Indians both love to fight about it.

India in this sense means India in the old sense of the word....From Afghanistan to Burma. and the Historical INDIA area of influence. There were none of the modern political divisionsthat we see today. Three was no such thing as Pakistan...the idea even incorporates countries north to China and south to Sri Lanka and Indian Ocean territories.

New young white kids to the city say "little India"...like little Italy....also there is no such thing as Little Pakistan.

Tourism Toronto is a useless money wasting disgrace, any high school student can market a product better than those idiots. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starbwoy (talk • contribs) 02:35, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

It has a history apart from being Indian and Chinese

I agree this article should be renamed to Gerrard India Bazaar, it emphasizes that aspect of Gerrard so much and completely misses the other 100 years of history that this street has been through. There were other people other than South Asians on this street that have been completely forgotten about by the people who wrote this article. Just because South Asians moved it all of a sudden becomes relavent to wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.90.21 (talk) 04:12, 16 November 2012 (UTC)