Talk:Gestapo/Archive 1

Archive 1

Doublespeak

The Geheime Staatspolizei were the secret state police of Nazi Germany. The German name, usually abbreviated "Gestapo," literally means "secret state police," and so avoids the usual doublespeak often favored by such organizations. -- It might be noted that the United States Secret Service does not avoid this doublespeak either. --Daniel C. Boyer

Full quotation

Can someone fill in the entire quote from Best. I don't doubt its accuracy, but I dislike ... quotes.

Article move

Given that Geheime Staatspolizei is not nearly so often used as simply Gestapo, I've moved the article to here from there (cf Nazi Party). --Camembert

Remove from article

Spotting Jews in crowds

Removed from the article:

" A good Gestapo police officer could spot a Jew in a crowd of dozens - their skill in maintainig racial purity of the Third Reich and eliminating undesirable and subversive elements was noted and greatly appreciated by the Führer."

Say what? Do you have any evidence for this extraordinary statement? The Anome

Doublespeak comment

Remove statement about doublespeak. Most secret police organizations really don't use doublespeak to identify themselves. They are typically have State Security in their name,

Bill of attainer

Remove link to bill of attainer. A bill of attainer is a legislative act of imprisionment, and the Gestapo was not a legislature Roadrunner 22:48, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Clarification needed for "Gestapo today"

The section "Definition of Gestapo today" is vague, confusing, and dubious. I mean, sure it'd be offensive to call a police officer a Gestapo man, but how is this interesting or unique? It's considered an insult to associate someone with the Nazis, because the Nazis have a deservedly bad reputation. Same goes for associating someone with any hated group. Isomorphic 00:37, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

In certain countries there is a huge different between calling someone a nazi and calling someone a Gestapo. Also, in Poland and Czechoslovakia the term became strongly associated with the peaceful demonstration of the democratic opposition, especially in the 1980's. In Poland the protesters usually shouted "Gestapo!" at the ZOMO riot police. By usually I mean practically every single demonstration. Because of that the term has basically two meanings, although only one of them is usually put in the dictionaries. I don't know whether this phenomenon is vague or not. It definitely is not dubious and if it is confusing then perhaps we could focus on improving it. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 00:53, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

Miscellaneous comments

- The Gestapo was founded in Prussia which was only a part of the "Deutsches Reich". Since the Gestapo's realm was not restricted to Prussia the reference to Prussia is irritating at best.

- It was NOT the "Department 1a [...]" but Göring EXPLICITLY called it "Geheime Staatspolizei" in his verdict to instate a "Geheimes Staatspolizeiamt" (Gestapa).

- The Gestapo never consisted of 45.000 members but had "only" about 32.000 in 1944 which was the final peak.

- The "significant popular support for the removal of Hitler" didn't exist in Germany at that time. There were several small groups opposing the Nazis but there was no significant movement or a joint effort as that sentence implies.

- Throughout the whole article there are several references to a German opposition. There was none in today's meaning of the word. As stated above there were several disjoint groups like the "White Rose", intelligence officers around Canaris and a few "Reichswehr" officers like Stauffenberg. None of them qualify as an opposition.

- "a major opposition organization, the Oster Circle"; if Oster is mentioned one must not fail to inform about Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, Oster's superior, as well who played a, if not *the*, major role in their group. Which, again, wasn't an organization nor could it be called a "major opposition". There were Wilhelm Canaris, Ludwig Beck, Erwin von Witzleben as well as Hans von Dohnanyi. I wouldn't call that an organization.

- "The German people were in an unenviable position by the late spring and early summer of 1943. On one hand, it was next to impossible for them to overthrow Hitler and the party."

The German people didn't want or even thought about overthrowing the Nazis. Some of them didn't know, many of them didn't *want* to know and most of them still believed in the "Führer".

- "the opposition still plotted and planned" - a few *people* did.

- "the old Gestapo headquarters, the EL-DE Haus," - the Gestapo hq was, of course, in Berlin in the Prinz-Albrecht-Straße. The EL-DE-Haus was only the *Cologne* hq and mainly served as a prison.

• Please, feel free to add to this article to improve its content. Although I cannot speak on the Prussian issue or the Gestapo census, I referenced my sources for the German opposition: the recently declassified CIA documents (external links) and the book by Von Klemperer. I clarified the Cologne HQ issue. Davodd 00:59, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)

Wrong Flag on Page

I visited the page and quickly noticed that the first picture, labeled as "Gestapo Flag" is not correct. The flag displayed is the flag for the Ordnungspolizei, which were the regular police of Germany and considered separate from the Gestapo. I am going to writing an article on the Orpo in the near future, at which time I would like to transfer the flag voer. IN the meantime, it should be removed from this article Husnock 6 Nov 2004

POLISH COUNTERINTELLIGENCE

There seems to be an mistake at the end of the article:

"As late as June 6, 1944 Heinrich Mueller, head of the Gestapo, concerned about the leakage of information to the allied forces, set up a special unit called Sonderkommando Jerzy, designed to root out the Polish intelligence network in western and southwestern Europe."

Poland is east in Europe, so I guess it should be eastern and southeaster Europe....?

I am however no expert in this so I leave it to others to check it out. Ulflarsen 11:44, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Doesn't have to be, although Poland is in Eastern Europe, (one of) their intelligence networks doesn't need to be

I'm not so sure there isn't another mistake. In the list of people executed by the Gestapo, Carl Friedrich Goerdeler's name is to be found, but I am sure that he was hanged at Plötzensee Prison in Berlin after an atrociously unfair trial at the Volksgerichtshof. Kelisi 15:48, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have now checked the link, and the story says that he was tortured by the Gestapo. I am quite sure that he was put to death at Plötzensee, though, which was not a Gestapo institution. I shall remove Goerdeler from the list. He was murdered by the Nazis all right, but it is inaccurate to say that the Gestapo actually killed him. Kelisi 15:52, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Structural issues

First i'd like to mention i really like the article so far. Although I think it should first tell the organisation and the issues of the Gestapo and then it should state, what has been done with the given power and how it was missused. In his current state the article emphazises (in my opinion) too much on the criminal history, the dirty deeds. Things, the Gestapo is already well known for, it's not like anybody wants to deny that, no way! I just think, with first giving only the structural facts and simple history of becoming and then the misuse (maybe a too weak expression) people reading the article will understand more, why this was tolerated back then, because it was sold to the people as a legal procedure and it was something, that happened over time and waswell placed into the general development. Another thing I'd like to mention is the first picture showing Himmler and Hilter, the text under the pictue states :"...chief of the SS (responsible for rounding up Jews)..." I think it would be more correct and neutral leave the "responsible for rounding up Jews" part out. And please don't start scream about any lies or something like denying history, that's not why! It's just not that you can reduce Himmler and the SS to this one horrofic crime, the list ist way much longer. Also, the bracketes (i mean these ) may also be understood as a comment on Himmler, where it would be quite too simple, if not wrong, to say he was responsible for it, he was, but not entirely alone. Last but not least the last part say "during the holochaust", wich could be understood as if Hitler and Himmler where just having a nice Sunday afternoon wtaching the Gestapo eliminating some dozens again. Actually, Hitler did'nt have the guts for that, as far as i know, he has only once or twice seen a camp, where (later) mass murdering became daily routine. For Himmler, I can't give any comment, but sure it would be better to just state "during the Nazi reign", also it can't be so hard to find out, on which occasion the picture was made. Again, it may not seem so, but i really liked the article, that's why i had to say a bit more. maybe, if you'd like, you can find some help or sources for links related to the article on german archive sites, also i can only remember: http://www.archive.nrw.de/ But I am sure, that the Hauptstaatsarchive Düsseldorf (main state archive Düsseldorf)has some records on the Gestapo. - thx, HellRaiser — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.145.160.193 (talk) 07:12, 26 April 2005 (UTC)

Acronym or portmanteau

I disagree with the recent edit asserting that the name is an acronym and not a portmanteau. Since it uses parts of the component words, and not just the initial letters, it seems more like a portmaneau to me. --Jeff Worthington 14:58, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

History

"...served as the Bavarian Police President and used local SS units as a policial police force." I think policial must be a mistake... they most likely meant political Scmdn 03:01, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

The Daily Operations of the Gestapo (Copyedit)

Re "the creditable denunciations from less creditable ones": Should this perhaps be credible, or did the Gestapo assign credits to some denunciations? I am hesitant to change it to credible in case that is not what was meant. Peter T.S. 03:08, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

You are quite right. It should read credible rather then creditable. Dammed spell-checker. However, Robert Gellately in his book The Gestapo and German society : enforcing racial policy does mention that those who made credible denunciations were thanked by the Gestapo for their time while those who persistently made false denunciations were sometimes shipped off to concentration camps for wasting the Gestapo's time. Thanks for sporting my mistake.A.S. Brown 05:58, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

OK, I've changed that paragraph. I wonder how the Gestapo could tell whether denunciations were sincere...? Peter T.S. 01:53, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

The Gestapo determined whatever the denunciations were true or not during the course of their investigations. Every denunciation, no matter how silly had to be investigated. But because the ratio of Gestapo officers to the general public was very lop-sided (for a example, in the region of Lower Franconia, which had about 1 million people in the 1930s, there was only one Gestapo post, which comprised 28 people, half of whom were clerical workers) and because every day the Gestapo received hundreds of denunciations, many of these investigations were done in an pretty cursorily manner. The more serious-sounding denunciations were given first priority while the more ludicrous-sounding denunciations were put on the back burner.

Sometimes, if the Gestapo were serious about investigating someone, the investigation would take months, and sometimes even years because there were so many denunciations and not enough investigators or time. Also, some matters were more important to the Gestapo then others. Allegations of sex between Jewish and “Aryan” Germans in the 1930s and later, during World War Two, between Germans and Polish workers brought to Germany were always given the first priority because success in these sorts of cases brought rapid promotion.A.S. Brown 20:51, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I think there may be a mistake in the gestapo organisation section D, should alients in fact read aliens

What is this supposed to mean?

I was reading through this article, and came upon:

Several Hitler assassination plots were planned, albeit mostly in abject terms.

Abject? To quote our friend Inigo Montoya, I do not think it means what you think it means. Perhaps abstract is the right word here? I'm not sure what that editor was trying to say, otherwise I'd make the edit myself. -- Wwagner 17:23, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Protection

Taking a look at the edit history, this article has been hit heavily by anon ip vandals throughout the month of April. At this point, a period of protection is in order so the article has been proteced against new and unregistered users. After a period of calming down, we can probably unprotect without too much issue. -Husnock 14:28, 20 April 2006 (UTC). yes sir

Opposition from within Germany

I have corrected the minor inaccuracy around the von Stauffenberg assassination attempt. The bomb did not go off in Hitler's office and Hitler was not saved by an oak desk. The correct account can be found in the Claus von Stauffenberg article:

Although four people were killed and almost all present were injured, Hitler was injured only lightly as he was shielded from the blast by a conference table.

This version of events is also backed up by the account in the biography of Hitler: Hitler: 1936–1945 Nemesis by Ian Kershaw --Etimbo | Talk 20:25, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The section on Keeping Hitler in Power ("The German opposition was in an unenviable position...") gives the impression that there was a credible, organised opposition within Germany which could have negotiated terms of a truce with the Allies, and that it was Allied inflexibility that prolonged the war. The opposition groups were small, hidden, and with no common agenda or ability to speak for large sections of the population or to carry enough of the the military with it in order to overthrow the Nazi regime, and so could hardly have convinced the Allies to end the war. Cavort 00:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Picture

File:Polizeimarke Gestapo.jpg

Randroide 10:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hijacked Article

Not sure how to report this, but the article on Gestapo appears to have been hijacked and I'm unsure how to fix it.

It sure is. I don't know how to remove that "The Gestapo were evil men"-line.

This vandalism was reverted fairly quickly. If you can still see it, try refreshing your cache.Boson 13:35, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

This article is being reviewed to examine whether it meets the good article criteria. See WP:GA/R for more information. RHB ^{Talk - Edits} 00:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Result of the GAR

Gestapo

result:Delist 4-0

No inline citations, wasn't put on teh GAC page but was passed by RHB ^{Talk - Edits} 00:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Speedy to GAC page. Plus, the lead is certainly not a summary of this article, no way can it be crammed into what little is there... Homestarmy 00:23, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delist Lead is lousy, no inline refs, cite needed tags.Rlevse 11:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delist per above. LuciferMorgan 17:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delist per above.Sumoeagle179 16:39, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delist per above. M3tal H3ad 08:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

This is the consensus to delist. Diez2 16:41, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

About the name Gestapo

I believe you will find the story of the origin of the name in the book "Order of the death's head" by Heinz Hohne. I read this book some time ago and in it I believe he says that it originated from a postal worker given the job of making a stamp. There may be a reference in the book. As I am abroad at the moment I can't check this out. Welkinridge 19:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Questionable Book

I am not certain that the following book should be listed as a source: "de Villemarest, Pierre, Untouchable - Who protected Bormann & Gestapo Müller after 1945..., Aquilion, 2005, ISBN 1-904997-02-3". It seems to me to be an very dubious book as judging by the title, it implies that Martin Bormann did not died in Berlin in 1945, and was instead protected by someone after the war. Given that it is quite clear that Bormann did in fact died in Berlin in 1945, this book appears to be questionable quality. --A.S. Brown 23:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism by users from the MENDOCINO COUNTY OFFICE OF EDUCATION

• 15:44, 21 May 2007 64.39.127.251
• 15:40, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.137
• 15:40, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.120
• 15:39, 21 May 2007 64.39.127.251
• 15:39, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.137
• 15:38, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.120
• 15:36, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.120
• 15:33, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.120
• 15:31, 21 May 2007 64.39.113.120

I corrected it, I hope I found all changes here. --Ccwelt 17:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 18:01, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

HELP IMPROVE THIS POOR ARTICLE

I corrected the uniform section THIS IS NOT VANDALISM. Please do not revert to a previous version when clearly it is worse. If you try to revert justify on talk page or you will be reported. Thanks Deadjune1 15:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you will be reported to the Security organs. A file will be opened. Corrective action will be taken. Ve know vere you live! 12.149.136.2 (talk) 21:24, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Poor choice of primary image

Even though the GESTAPO was somewhat involed in the holocaust I really don't think that the primary image to use in conjunction with this article should be the current one -- lots of dead people in a death camp. Feel free to keep the picture in the article somewhere --but a better top image would probably be their logo, their leader, or something similair that is more related to their organization. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.241.97.116 (talk) 01:13, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Head of the Gestapo?

I don't think this part of the article is right:

Also in 1936, Reinhard Heydrich became head of the Gestapo and Heinrich Müller, chief of operations; Müller would later assume overall command of the Gestapo after Heydrich's assassination in 1942

Müller, according to the Wikipedia article on him, was head of Section IV of RSHA as of 1939 when the Gestapo was incorporated into the RSHA. He continued in that role after Heydrich's assassination.

Before I change it however I want to post this comment so as to solicit the advice of those who know more about Nazi hierarchies ("the organizational chart of hell") than I do. --Andersonblog (talk) 19:17, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

You're right, the article was wrong. But, man, sorting out the Byzantine structures is a pain! For all that legendary German "efficiency," the reality was like Rennaissance Italian politics. Solicitr (talk) 00:15, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

It is quite a "labyrinth" as Schellenberg would say. Solicitr, as you know, Muller was directly under Heydrich in the Gestapo until Sept. 1939. Then with the advent of the RSHA, (the umbrella organization Heydrich oversaw) Muller took over as head of the Gestapo A/K/A Department 4 therein (still under Heydrich's overall command). I saw where the info. box was still in error so I fixed it. Kierzek (talk) 00:31, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Organization

This needs attention. What is Protestants (B2) supposed to mean? Did these departments monitor groups? what is 'Zaiton M Kassim Khan' supposed to refer to?--EchetusXe (talk) 12:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the Gestapo monitored religious organizations for any sign of preaching or doctrine that could be seen as a challenge to Nazi ideology. Many ministers and priests wound up in the camps. Solicitr (talk) 17:54, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Some of that was vandalism. Last time I checked, the organization had been reverted to the reference that the SS used. There were very specific Sonderkommandos established to deal with specific people or to take care of certain tasks, but the overall organization was the same from 1941 to 1945. -OberRanks (talk) 18:09, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

The ranks are NOT CORRECT

Please compare the Gestapo ranks with the german wikipedia:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geheime_Staatspolizei#Dienstgrade

A "Sturmscharführer" wasn't a "Kriminalinspektor auf Probe" The correct Equivalent was "Kriminalsekretär". A "Sturmscharführer" was the highest noncommissioned officer. A "Kriminalinspektor auf Probe" was a beginner. "auf Probe" means on approval.62.47.175.216 (talk) 07:43, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Quite right; the table shifted somehow. I'll fix it.

However, a Kriminalkommissar auf Probe (Probationary or Acting-Commissioner) WAS the same paygrade as a Kriminalsekretar. There were two career tracks in the Gestapo (and Kripo)- the 'field" or "street" service and the administrative service, and each had their own rank progression.--Solicitr (talk) 13:07, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

@Solicitr: A "Kriminalinspektor auf Probe" was a officer. My mistake. You are right.62.47.162.159 (talk) 07:25, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Daily Operations section

While additions that improve an article or section thereto are always welcome; the latest large addition herein needs editing. The points to be made are tied to excessive verbosity. Edits for concision and summary need to be made (and cites fixed). I don't have time at the moment but if no one else gets to it, I will at a later time. Kierzek (talk) 03:44, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Performed clean up; Edits for concision and summary of points as sections are to be; cites added and fixed; much redundancy removed. Kierzek (talk) 01:37, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Removed text about gas vans

"The first gas van or "dushegubka" (literary - 'soul-destroyer') was used for mass executions in USSR by the NKVD in 1936. It was invented by the Chief of the Administrative Department of the NKVD in the Moscow region Berg Isay Davidovich. The Gestapo learned about this method in about 1940, when close collaboration & information exchange with the NKVD was established. Starting in December 1941, the Nazis used gas vans for the execution of Jews." There was never any proof for this claim. Earliest use was by the fascists themselfs in the anti-communist propagandacampagne to discredit the USSR. Western powers also pick it up at the start of the cold war in their anti-communist campagnes. But never any facts to proof it have been found. (unsigned)

Documentation should indeed be provided for this claim. It is not only good policy, but not documenting it will just set off leftover Commies like this one.

(You can tell these people by the way the refer to the Nazis (National Socialists) as 'fascists'. A term which they never used, but which these people use because same people don't like to be reminded of the true Nazi name - National SOCIALISTS.)

Speaking of documentation, have you a reference for a use by the 'fascists' of this claim? If so, when giving it, please avoid terms like 'campagne', 'themselfs' and 'never any facts to proof it have been found'.

P.S. Your grammar wears combat boots. 12.149.136.2 (talk) 21:39, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, this is nothing; you should see the lefty losers who hang around the Spanish Civil War-related articles.

On the note of removing information, I don't want to attempt it myself, but really, we absolutely do not need an "in parody" section on the Gestapo page. It's an insult to what is being attempted here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.5.19.108 (talk) 20:07, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Something that could be added to this article would be the aid given the Gestapo by the NKVD during the Nazi-Soviet pact. The Soviet Union opened their files to the Nazis and aided them to arrest many Communists all over occupied Europe. Can this information (with references) be added to the article, or do you need approval from an administrator? 170.170.59.139 (talk) 04:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The claim is nothing but Neo-Nazi antisemitic sewage. A person named Berg Isay Davidovich could never have existed. in their attempts to invent a Jewish-sounding name the fabricators of this claim committed a typically ludicrous error. Berg is surname not a first name. This is reminiscent of their claim that Boris Yeltsin was a Jew whose 'real' name was Bennathan Yeltsin, ignorantly oblivious to the fact Bennathan ( lit. son of Nathan ) could only be a surname or a patronym. They thus renamed Yeltsin, Nathanovich Yeltsin. attempts to source the vile claim should thus be avoided. It is not merely 'commies' and other 'losers' to quote the trashy phrasing of two previous editors, but all the vertebrates among us who condemn this historiographic slander.Soz101 (talk) 13:04, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

About the name Gestapo

Apparently the name Gestapo was created by a Berlin postal official who wanted a name that would fit on a regulation-sized postal rubber stamp. Gestapo was derived from seven letters within the full name Geheime Staats Polizei. Unknowingly, the postal official had invented one of the most notorious names in history. found at http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/triumph/tr-gestapo.htm and not by Göring as in the article. Not sure which one is correct

that was common practice in Germany at that time. there are many examples for this: Gröfatz = Größte Führer aller Zeiten for example — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.154.195.115 (talk) 12:53, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to redirect searches for 'Department D' here

A search for 'Department D' (when not searching for the exact phrase) currently shows results for various mentions of the word 'Department' from a range of topics unrelated to this one. As the majority of users searching for 'Department D' would be looking for this topic would it be OK to redirect searches to this page? 'Department D' has an unreferenced mention in on-screen text in the film 'Schindler's List' which is what prompted my search for it in the first place and, I assume, may prompt others to search for the same. ThurstenEgorGreene (talk) 04:18, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Seized records

The Gestapo's records on everyone ended up being seized by the winners of the war. Anyone got a good reference so we can add that to the history near the end of the Gestapo? This seems like a pretty important part of their history not to mention! 71.196.246.113 (talk) 12:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007271 Hmm, reliable? 71.196.246.113 (talk) 12:33, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Most (but not all) the Gestapo's records were destroyed, either in Allied air raids or burned by the Gestapo themselves as Allied forces approached.The historians (Gellately, Mann etc) cited in the article have been through what survives-- and the originals are in German, which won't do most readers of en.wiki much good. Solicitr (talk) 14:21, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Local offices section

Not sure I understand what somebody is trying to accomplish with this section, at least as it stands. I found sources for structure in Krausnik, et al., but the following observation (while somehow familiar), cannot be validated:

"The classic image of the Gestapo officer, dressed in trench coat and hat, can be attributed to Gestapo offices in German cities and larger towns. This image seems to have been popularized by the assassination of the former Chancellor General Kurt von Schleicher in 1934. General von Schleicher and his wife were shot in their Berlin home by three men dressed in black trench coats and wearing black fedoras. The killers were widely believed to have been Gestapo men"

Anyone who knows where this came from specifically is encouraged to cite it accordingly. --Obenritter (talk) 21:55, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

I just checked Kershaw and all he states is the general and his wife were murdered at their home. I will add a cn, for now. Kierzek (talk) 22:02, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi Kierzek - with 250 plus books on my shelves on this subject, I cannot recollect where I read this before. It is familiar but it might just be anecdotal. Until I come across this from a noted scholar/source, my opinion is that this section remains labelled as needing work. Moreover, the section (aside from the cited first sentence-for which you and I both found references) is very weak. The comments about the "image" of the Gestapo really have nothing to do with the way it was organized into local offices nor how they functioned. The section doesn't deserve the large heading it currently dons (bzw zumindest meiner Auffassung nach)

I agree with you and made edits for concision. See what you denken. Kierzek (talk) 22:29, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Kierzek = redaktionelle Änderungen extraordinaire. That's what I denke. Thanks for your continued vigilance. --Obenritter (talk) 23:22, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

dank Mann. Kierzek (talk) 02:05, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

References to Stasi a political statement

I am of the view that the Stasi cannot be compared to the fascist security agencies. To argue that there is a correlation between the roles and purpose of the Stasi and the Gestapo is a fairly contentious political argument. For the sake of clarity and objectivity, please only include relevant organisations that operated under fascist control in the 'see- also' section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.174.21.216 (talk) 12:11, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Oswald Gundelach

Oswald Gundelach was on the list of Principal agents and officers for a long time and was removed only after his page was deleted a short time ago. SS-Hauptscharfuehrer Oswald Gundelach was Head of Gestapo Würzburg Jew deportations. His German page is at https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Gundelach. Translated with google at [1]. Oswald Gundelach organized all Gestapo deportations to Poland's Majdanek concentration camp in Lublin between 1941 and 1943 as the DA 49 transport leader. Someone thinks this is not notable, thus the article was deleted. Also on 3 April 1947 a US Military Court in Landsberg am Lech sentenced him to life imprisonment for shooting in cold blood a US Airman near Ruppertshutten in September of 1944. The Nazi crimes Dachau Trials by U.S. Army Courts in Europe gave Oswald Gundelach a death sentence for the killing of Jews and the US airman. (But now, move along nothing to see here about this leader.) Telecine Guy 23:09, 23 June 2016 (UTC). On 14 March 1953 Gundelach was released and returned to Bavarian civil service as a policeman. On 17 June 1963, he retired and was honored by the Bavarian State Government with the following words: "For the Free State of Bavaria I speak to police wardens Oswald Gundelach from the completion of a service period of 40 years the gratitude and recognition of the Bavarian State Government. The time when he was with the Gestapo was credited.[2]

• Ref:
• The Gestapo and German Society: Enforcing Racial Policy, 1933-1945, page 264
• Transports to Extinction - Train Da 49 from Wuerzburg
• Herbert Kolb's autobiography, Page 163 [3]
• Dachau Trials

He was a mid-level Gestapo agent and was removed for the same reason his article was deleted; does not meet GNG. Kierzek (talk) 00:19, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

If one is only looking at rank, I would agree. But looking at actions and 2 US trials, and June 1963 news, I respectfully disagree. Telecine Guy 00:31, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

German controlled Silesia

Silesia was German. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.13.151.15 (talk) 17:34, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

How Can This Article be Protected or semiprotected against vandalism

Can anyone protect or can anyone tell wikipedia to protect this page against any future vandalism that it might suffer in the near future? it seems it could happen, also protect the German Gestapo page too,Geheime Staatspolizei please. thanksTerrorwatcher (talk) 19:52, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Very messy article

I mean, just look at this...

'Nevertheless, the sight of dark leather coats and black SS uniforms along with the very mention of the word "Gestapo" elicited fear among the general population.'

One minute earlier, the article states how GESTAPO agents didn't wear SS uniforms, and how the black SS uniform got replaced with a grey uniform, so what gives? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.38.137.144 (talk) 18:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

It is not "messy" at all. But with that said, it does need further RS citing in the uniform section. I did remove that one sentence as it really is not needed and is somewhat out of place for the section. Generally, they did not wear uniforms and when they did it was for official functions or when posted in the East. Kierzek (talk) 19:06, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Rank insignia table: wrong, needs fixing

Gestapo personnel in uniform did not wear the sig-runes on the left collar, but a plain black patch. Solicitr (talk) 23:02, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Controversial picture

White Buses? Kind of AH with a dog. Should be replaced.Xx236 (talk) 09:22, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Do only the winners get to write history?

I have re-included links to the Blacks and Tans in Ireland (British operation) and the State Security Service in South Africa. If you want to deny that these states weren't at war or weren't fascist, lets argue it out. 'User:TheCampaignForRealPhysics'

I do not know the subject, but Gestapo was a police and State Security Council was not one. You mean probably Bureau of State Security and later NIS, don't you? Xx236 (talk) 08:45, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Black and Tans seems to be rather mass formation, Gestapo was small. Have Black and Tans participated in a genocide, like Gestapo did? I do not think so.Xx236 (talk) 08:52, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Linking

'Communist Party of Germany' is linked at least twice, and 'KPD' is not explained.

'SPD' is unexplained.

Nothing about trade unions. Xx236 (talk) 13:50, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Fixed.--Obenritter (talk) 16:09, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

The Holocaust should be linked in the lead

Gestapo participated in the Holocaust, not only planning it as Final Solution.Xx236 (talk) 14:49, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Heinrich Muller was at the conference, certainly the Gestapo was involved in both and that is addressed. Kierzek (talk) 12:49, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

The Holocaust should be quoted directly, not indirectly like here 'During World War II, the Gestapo played a key role in the Nazi plan to exterminate the Jews of Europe.' Xx236 (talk) 08:24, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Exactly how would one "quote" the concept of the Holocaust? Let me educate you for a moment -- a concept cannot be quoted. Please stop trolling this page. If you're here to constructively work on a Wikipedia encyclopedia page, I do not see much evidence of it anywhere.--Obenritter (talk) 23:04, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

"Trolling'?" "Educate"?: Please stop attacking me. An editor has to cooperate. My crtics was rational and partially accepted by you. which is documented in history of the page, compare "Fixed.". The Germanocentrism of the text is obvious. Gestapo participated in the Holocaust and this participation should be described. Is it really only one phrase " During the Holocaust, Eichmann and his agency coordinated the mass deportation of European Jews to the Nazis' extermination camps."? It means that the Eichmann's agency participated, noone more. Xx236 (talk) 12:20, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/gestapo Xx236 (talk) 13:35, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Fixed.--Obenritter (talk) 14:52, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Suppression of resistance/Homosexuality

As far as I know there was no homosexual 'resistance' network. The Nazis decided to persecute them.Xx236 (talk) 12:46, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Section title fixed. However, "resistance" in the Nazi imagination meant not conforming to the norms of the regime. Listening to British foreign broadcasts for example, was considered "resistance" in Nazi parlance.--Obenritter (talk) 14:55, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

'Official secret police'

Is "official secret police" in the opening sentence not an oxymoron? Surely you have official police and secret police? The Police forces of Nazi Germany article lists (presumably) the official police forces but does not include the Gestapo. The sentence should be changed to "was the secret police of Nazi Germany and in German-occupied Europe." 2001:BB6:4713:4858:D980:4B9C:6A64:6DAB (talk) 10:05, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

The abbreviation Gestapo is derived from Geheime Staatspolizei, which translates as secret State police < "state" being the official government organ thereof, so there is nothing wrong with the way this is worded. The other police elements within Nazi society are covered as well, accordingly named. Translations do not always make perfect sense between languages, unfortunately.--Obenritter (talk) 14:00, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Obenritter is correct. Not to mention the fact that the article you cite to 2001:BB6:4713:4858:D980:4B9C:6A64:6DAB is not very well written and certainly is incomplete in its presentation of information to the general reader. It does list the SiPo, which if you click on the link to that article you’ll see that the SiPo was an organization made up of the Gestapo and the Kripo under Heydrich. Kierzek (talk) 14:33, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

I just did some needed ce work to the article, Police forces of Nazi Germany. Obenritter, see what you think. It could use some additional work and citations. Kierzek (talk) 14:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

@Kierzek: While I have never come across that article, I will see what I can do when I have time (so little of it these days).--Obenritter (talk) 19:38, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

I never knew it existed either until it was mentioned above. There’s not much to it. Cheers, Kierzek (talk) 20:03, 1 July 2021 (UTC)