Talk:Ghost Lake

More coming

Just added the infobox and some images; I'm writing the article off-wiki and will put it up soon.--starfarmer*comm 23:45, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Photo

The photo in the sidebar is not Ghost Lake. It is of these small, unnamed lakes: http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&q=51.2,-114.75&ie=UTF8&ll=51.130838,-115.069256&spn=0.030378,0.090895&z=14

Upstream of the actual Ghost lake: http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&q=51.2,-114.75&ie=UTF8&ll=51.197849,-114.757004&spn=0.121338,0.363579&z=12 136.159.234.231 (talk) 08:43, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I finally acted on this observation and removed the misleading image from the Infobox. I probably should have done that almost a decade ago. While the image that is now in the Infobox is very beautiful, it is not all that informative. If somebody has an image that is more informative and also freely licensed, that would be most welcome. --Schwarze (talk) 19:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 26 September 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. -- Tavix ^(talk) 17:48, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

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• Ghost Lake (Alberta) → Ghost Lake
• Ghost Lake → Ghost Lake (disambiguation)

– There are only two articles using the name "Ghost Lake", the lake in Alberta and the summer village. I would like to propose that the lake in Alberta is the primary topic. 117Avenue (talk) 05:08, 26 September 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. DrStrauss talk 17:28, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

• Support first move - But delete the disambiguation page, a hatnote is sufficient._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 05:26, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Zxcvbnm several entries on the dab were missing. Also Google "Ghost Lake" what comes up first by a big margin is Ghost Lake (Conneaut Lake Park) not Alberta. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:10, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

• Change vote to Support. Ultimately what should determine primary topics is whether there's an article on something, not Google searches. That's akin to WP:ITSPOPULAR or perhaps WP:BIGNUMBER with regards to the search hits. Also, "Ghost Lake" is barely mentioned in the article on Conneaut Lake Park. If there were many articles about the various "Ghost Lakes" that made them independently notable then I would reconsider._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 08:26, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

@In ictu oculi: I'm going to guess that you live near Pennsylvania, because when I Google "Ghost Lake" I get the lake in Alberta. But since I live in Alberta I tried DuckDuckGo, which looks largely the lake in Alberta. 117Avenue (talk) 02:53, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose seven lakes and half a dozen other subjects for "Ghost Lake", plus going to cause confusion between the lake and the village which are essentially the same subject but different articles. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:05, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

When I was writing the disambiguation page, and disambiguating the items on Wikidata, I become very well aware that there are more lakes out there with this name. However, there are only two things that are notable enough for an article with this name, and being a popular recreation spot the lake in Alberta is the most worthy of the article name "Ghost Lake". 117Avenue (talk) 02:53, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose. Most unlikely to be a primary topic for such a common name. No evidence that there is one. Andrewa (talk) 10:23, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Make that now insufficient evidence. Andrewa (talk) 23:19, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
• Support. The lake receives 87.3% of the traffic[1] in what's essentially a WP:TWODABS situation. It's also far and away the most notable of the topics on the dab page, including of the village of 82 that is named after it.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:20, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Thank you for the evidence. Agree that it's the most notable, but that isn't sufficient. It needs to be far more likely than all other topics taken together to be the one sought, and/or far more significant. I think it fails both, despite the page view statistics. (And which is named after which is not terribly relevant.) Andrewa (talk) 23:19, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Uh, by the evidence, this is article is sought much more than all other topics combined, and it's far more notable than a village of 82 and a couple of less significant lakes and other minor topics that don't have articles or real coverage at any other article.--Cúchullain ^t/c 03:54, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

• Support per Cuchullain. I looked at this yesterday, and thought it was probably a sensible move - Google results mostly seem to refer to the Alberta Lake or the film (which was deleted in an AfD earlier this year). I didn't have enough evidence to make a call, but the page views and Cuchullain's evidence seems to settle it.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:31, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

• Support, as the populated locality will use comma disambiguation, leaving only the lake to use a parenthetical. bd2412 T 03:10, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

• Support per Cuchullain and Amakuru. Clear primarytopic. Dohn joe (talk) 13:49, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

• Support per WP:2DABPRIMARY. —  AjaxSmack  00:37, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Proposed Revisions to Ghost Lake page

REQUEST EDIT

Information within the Ghost Lake document requires updating. With the COVID-19 pandemic Albertans (Calgarians) are exploring lakes and recreational options closer to home and this has resulted in a marked increase in traffic to the Ghost Lake (Reservoir) area. In an effort to provide better information to the general public I would suggest the following information be added.

I have reviewed the Conflict of interest guidelines and state that I do not have any COI I have no direct or indirect financial or other interest in any of the businesses referenced in the update. My sole intent on mentioning them and linking their websites is so that the general public can be better informed of what resources are actually available at Ghost Lake.

With respect to the Summer village of Ghost lake, all statements made are correct and can be confirmed by discussion with the Chief Administrative officer of the Village. Because of the lack of information there has been a huge increase in traffic within the village as tourists mistakenly believe that there are facilities and water access. I am hoping that updating the information available on Wikipedia will result in a reduction in unnecessary traffice within the village making it safer for the residents and reducing the frustration of tourists.

If there are any questions about the material or its sources, I would be happy to answer those questions councillor.walsh@ghostlake.ca

SUGGESTED ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

Water Access There is only one boat public boat launch. It is maintained by the Province of Alberta. https://www.albertaparks.ca/parks/kananaskis/ghost-reservoir-pra/ There are no public boat docks or morage (private facilitaties are available thru Ghost lake Recreations). There is very limited boat trailer parking capacity at the Provincial public boat launch which is located immediately on the west side of the dam. There are no facilities or water access for the general public in Cottage Club or in the Summer Village of Ghost Lake.

Recreation There are no rental facilities on the reservoir for Sailboats, motorized boats, or non-motorized water craft. The only portion of the reservoir accessible to the general public is within the Ghost Reservoir Provincial Recreation area. https://www.albertaparks.ca/parks/kananaskis/ghost-reservoir-pra/

Sailing The location brings consistent, strong winds, which make the lake suitable for sailing and iceboating. Despite the thermal winds in the summer there are no organized sailing events or rentals on the lake. In the past there was an active sailing academy but this is no longer in business (their website has not been updated in 2 years). The lake was also home to an yacht club which was disbanded over 15 years ago. In the winter months there are a few icesailers but the ice sailing club also disbanded 10 years ago and all activities are by private individuals independently.

Non-motorized watercraft Paddle boards, canoes and kayaks frequent the north arm and can explore up the Ghost river where it empties into the reservoir.

Swimming Ghost Lake was selected as the swimming venue in 2009 for the inaugural Ironman Calgary 70.3. [citation needed] but subsequently the swim venue has moved to manmade lakes in Calgary. Because of heavy volume of motorboat traffic, strong winds and cold water this lake is not ideal for open water swimmers unless accompanied by an escort watercraft. There are no designated or protected swimming areas and no lifeguards on duty.

Hiking There are no hiking trails around the Ghost reservoir. The Provincial boat launch and day use area is of limited size and there are very limited (short) internal trails within it. These basically go from the camping or parking areas to the waterfront. The areas immediately adjacent are owned by either First Nations or other private individuals. they are private property and trespassing is prohibited. The nearest hiking area is either Kanaskis, Cochane or the Ghost Wilderness (Waiparous).

Fishing The lake has recreational fishing year round. Sport fish include lake trout, mountain whitefish, lake whitefish and brown trout. Alberta Fish and Wildlife actively patrol the lake enforcing fishing license requirements and boating regulations.

Safety Power boating and sailing in the lake should be done with caution as water levels flucuate markedly over the year and underwater hazzards and shallows are not marked. There are no lifeguards on duty and no rescue boats or other resources available at the public facilities. The nearest assistance has to come from Cochrane via 911 which is 20 km east of the public areas.

Commerce Ghost Lake Recreation Campground, Marina, Chandlery and store. At the reservoir On the north side of Hwy 1a. https://www.ghostlakerecreations.com/ Ghost Station Gast Station, Groceries, Liquor, camping etc, 3 km east of the Reservoir, just past the Hwy 40 exit. https://ghoststation.ca/ No hotels or motels exist on the lake. There may be some private short term rentals (Air B and B) available within Cottage club.

Summer Village of Ghost Lake There is a small summer village on the lake which was established in 1953. It has no public services, no gas station, and no stores of any kind. There is no water access within the village and no public boat launch. There are no hotels, motels, or other forms of rental accommadation within the village. There is no camping withing the village and no public picnicking or day use areas. There is no public parking within the village, this includes the road allowance / right of way. The nearest public parking is 3.5 km east of the village. The single lane village roads are used by its citizens as sidewalks, bike paths, dog walking areas, and are designed as low traffic, low speed areas.

MayorSVGL (talk) 00:14, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Walsh,

It is certainly appreciated that you are willing to spend time to improve texts on Wikipedia!

However, please be aware that Wikipedia is not a generic information database but an encyclopedia. Consequently, it is not the appropriate place for publishing original research.

When you are providing information from your personal expert knowledge, for example because your live and work in the vicinity and have inspected the place with your own eyes and talked to people there, that does count as original research.

I do not doubt that what you say is accurate, but that *you* know it and that *I* believe you does not free us from the necessity to cite published sources.

For example, you say that there is exactly one public boat lauch. That is definitely relevant information that i'd like to add if it can be sourced. Unfortunately, the Alberta Parks webpage you link to (i love what Alberta Parks is doing, they are doing great work according to my experience!) does not say so. It merely says that various water sports are possible on Ghost Lake.

Can you cite any newspaper articles, tourist guide books, publications by sport or outdoor associations or *any* other sources?

I see two more problems with the information you provide:

1. Part of it is written like an advertisement - in this case, not so much to attract customers, but rather to discourage people from coming who would only be disappointed by what they would find. That can certainly be fixed without discarding too much information. Aiming for a neutral point of view is generally desired.

2. Part of the information may not be in scope for a worldwide encyclopedia. For example, a list of shops in a small village certainly isn't, and links to the websites of the shops even less so.

For now, i added the Alberta Parks reference you provided and clarified that only that area is open to the public, but it would certainly be nice to improve the article futher - but we need sources!

Finally, on this Talk page, somebody observed that the image in the Infobox is *NOT* Ghost Lake, and from my personal visit to Ghost Lake, my impression is that indeed it isn't. Can you confirm that it isn't? If so, i'd like to remove the misleading image.

There is one final way how you could help: Do you have an image of Ghost Lake that you took yourself and that shows well what the Lake looks like? That two images i took about five years ago (in the gallery) are not outright bad, but maybe not informative enough for the Infobox...

Yours, Ingo Schwarze (talk) 02:28, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

P.S. A conflict of interest is not only if you have a financial or commercial interest - for example, i have the same problem with the page mandoc. I could improve that page a lot, i even know plenty of sources to cite, but i can't do it because i'm the maintainer of the program. I maintain that program for free and don't earn any money from it, but it's still a conflict of interest. Similarly, if you are a councillor of Ghost Lake or of Cochrane, that's definitely a conflict of interest, too. Still, getting the help of an expert is absolutely appreciated and can make an article much better and help to avoid errors - it's just that persons with a COI should not do major edits themselves.

An additional reply to one specific point:

You wrote: "In the winter months there are a few icesailers but the ice sailing club also disbanded 10 years ago and all activities are by private individuals independently." So i thought i might delete the sentence "The Ghost Lake Iceboat Club is located at Ghost Lake." as "unsourced and not even true". Before doing so, i did a quick check and it turns out several sources exist suggesting that the club did *NOT* disband ten years ago, for example:

https://www.avenuecalgary.com/city-life/ghost-lake-ice-sailing-club/ (Dec 2018, source seems of moderate quality)

https://dailyhive.com/calgary/ice-sailing-alberta-ghost-lake-january-2019 (somewhat mediocre source; Jan 2019)

https://www.facebook.com/GhostLakeIceSailingClub/ last posting Feb 15, 2020 (primary source, which is not ideal)

listed on https://www.idniyra.org/about/regions-clubs/ (again, primary source)

listed on https://albertasailing.com/club-directory/ (even though a primary source, this one looks quite reliable to me)

referenced on https://www.glenmoresailingclub.com/Collegiate (again primary, but looks quite reliable to me, too)

Certainly having a reference in a high-quality secondary source (like a recent article in the Calgary Herald) would be ideal, but when there are no high-quality sources, having several medium-quality sources and several primary sources that all agree with each other can also establish a fact.

In Wikipedia, getting the facts right is really important... So, does the club exist, or does it not? If it does exist, i do not doubt that it is notable, because it is regularly talked about in the media, and several sailing associations point to it.

Yours, Ingo Schwarze (talk) 03:47, 2 June 2020 (UTC)