Talk:Giorgio A. Tsoukalos/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

I just added "notability" and "questionable sources" tags to the article. My claim that the subject of the article is not notable is related to the reliability of the cited sources, in part. The sources currently listed are (1) a press release and (2) the website of the publication that the article subject publishes. Thus, it seems that this article might be self-promoting (or at least those sources are). Unless someone can find some reliable, independent secondary sources, I'm going to recommend this article for deletion.

Also, I think the statement that this guy is the host of Ancient Aliens is dubious. Neither the History channel website's page [1] for the show, nor the show's IMdB entry [2] list him as the host.

Finally, I think the subject's last name in the title is misspelled. It is spelled "Tsoukalas" in the title, but "Tsoukalos" in the text and references. Nytewing07 (talk) 22:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• A quick google search will reveal a vast amount of secondary sources. But perhaps you should recommend the article for deletion if you believe it doesn't fit wiki standard, and maybe a vote could ensue. I will post another source in reference area and hopefully that will be sufficent. I believe you are right concerning the subjects name being mispelled in the title. As far as the subject being notable an internet search will prove to be in favor of his notability. --Lucius Sempronius Turpio (talk) 11:10, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

-Describing the Legendary Times magazine as "widely circulated" may warrant an edit. Although Tsoukalos has been on several popular television shows, his views and those expressed in the Legendary Times can be considered fringe, at best. "Widely circulated" makes it sound as if readership might be on par with Popular Science or National Geographic. Or, as was mentioned above, I could also recommend deletion of this article as it does seem rather self-promoting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andomichan (talk • contribs) 02:39, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

- "Widely circulated" : I concur, that is an editorializing that usually accompanies a self promotion (as in, "needs all the help he can get"). Please define "widely circulated." giggle 10:50, 22 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregory.george.lewis (talk • contribs)

He's not the host of Ancient Aliens, but IMDB bills him as a "consulting producer", and he appears to get plenty of face time on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.14.172 (talk) 14:06, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Stylistic changes

[3]

"Ancient astronauts" is not a hypothesis. It's an idea based on novel interpretations from mythology and pseudo-archeology. It isn't a hypothesis because it defies falsification. In other words, one cannot propose an experiment or test that would disprove the proposal as supported by believers. The believers simply think that ancient astronauts are a fact of history and individual debunking of individual claims cannot dissuade them from this belief. As such, this is no more a hypothesis than the divinity of Christ is a hypothesis or the idea that there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet.

Also, publications present ideas. They cannot actually search for supporting evidence. Such activities are done by people themselves, not publications.

76.119.90.74 (talk) 12:32, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Doctorate?

An earlier version of this article claimed he had some sort of Doctorate in 2001 from Ithaca College. However, the 2004 article in "Ithaca College Quarterly" makes no mention of a doctorate, only that he's a '98 graduate and a Bodybuilding promoter. Justin W Smith ^talk/_stalk 03:45, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Also note that no doctoral programs are listed on the Ithaca College website, and it's doubtful that Ithaca College has had such a doctoral program in the recent past. So claims like the one made (rem attack site) that "Tsoukalos holds a Doctorate in sports information communications and Science from Ithaca college" seem clearly erroneous. Justin W Smith ^talk/_stalk 04:56, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, you linked to an attack site; I think you may have meant to link to this page. Dreadstar ☥ 05:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

You're right. I googled for "Doctorate in sports information communications and Science" and such a degree is not listed anywhere, except in association with Tsoukalos. I was hoping to find a school which offered such a degree. I included that (attack site) link b/c it provided a school name. I've not found the name of any other university with which he was ever associated. Justin W Smith ^talk/_stalk 15:52, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Picture?

Is it possible to include a picture? There are thousands of pictures of the man on the Internet. Surely one can be found that is usable? 70.247.162.84 (talk) 19:03, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Tsoukalos is a historian?

Currently Tsoukalos is categorized as both a Greek and Swiss historian. Should Tsoukalos even be considered a historian? For comparison, the articles on David Hatcher Childress, Robert Bauval, Zecharia Sitchin, Erich von Däniken and Murry Hope do not categorize them as historians, but only as pseudohistorians. (I could argue further about how pseudohistory differs from history, but I'll save it.) Justin W Smith (talk) 21:23, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

this is a relatively high profile article and has been a constant target vandalism. the decision to revert was based on what appeared to be the stark incongruity of the category changes (ie historian to entertainer). i certainly don't want to dive into to the deep dark waters of what makes one an historian (although i would love to read your thesis on the differences), i think i could absolutely get behind and support a category change from historian to pseudohistorian. --emerson7 16:59, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I went ahead and changed the category to Pseudohistorian. If anyone disgrees, feel free to revert my changes (but please participate in this discussion with your thoughts on why you think he should be categorized as a Historian). Justin W Smith (talk) 17:24, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Pseudohistorian is a pejorative?

Although User:Dreadstar did not comment here, he has a valid concern: If "pseudohistorian" is a pejorative term, shouldn't the use of this category in a WP:BLP always be supported by a citation? Here's my response:

• I don't think a reasonable person would argue that Tsoukalos is not a pseudohistorian; for the past decade he has been the director of research at "Erich von Däniken's Center for Ancient Astronaut Research", an institution that is nearly synonymous with pseudohistory.
• I think an argument can be made that "pseudohistory" is not necessarily a pejorative term (although it would be in the context of academia). Pseudohistorians explore alternative interpretations of historical evidence. They are typically not concerned with whether their claims are falsifiable; they seem to care more about whether their reinterpretations of historical events are interesting/entertaining. It's not science, it's more akin to "entertainment". In the context of this article, I don't think categorizing Tsoukalos as a "pseudohistorian" is pejorative.
• If "pseudohistorian" is a perjorative, then it should be removed from other BLPs (unless its use is supported by citations).

Any other thoughts? Justin W Smith (talk) 15:55, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

FYI. I've posted requests for comment on this at Category talk:Pseudohistorians#Pseudohistory is a pejorative? and Talk:Pseudohistory#Pseudohistory is a pejorative?. I've requested that this discussion occur here. Thanks, Justin W Smith (talk) 16:07, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I've only just chanced upon this old discussion, but I'd like to comment:

• "Pseudohistorian" is certainly pejorative. I have never seen and can scarcely imagine any context where someone would willingly apply it to themselves or accept the label as other than an insult
• Therefore the BLP rules apply. Even for dead people use of the term without citation is WP:OR
• This doesn't hinder the effective expression of an equivalent judgment if justified and supported by citation.

SamuelTheGhost (talk) 12:10, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

I prefer the term "cryptohistorian" akin to cryptozoologist, which means one who "studies" Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster and the like. Cross Reference (talk) 05:09, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

"Pseudohistorian" falls in line with WP:DUCK here. Simonm223 (talk) 16:07, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Questions and sourcing

Article is missing sourced data on citizenship (Swiss? Greek? American? All of the above?), ethnic background (Greek? Greek from Greece, Cyprus, Lebanon ...?), and so on. Please ensure that any and all sources used conform strictly to WP:BLP. Laval (talk) 04:09, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Meme popularity?

I don't know if stating that he's a popular meme subject would be trolling the article or not. Therefore, aliens. ... sorry, I had to. Question is serious, though. Yes, no?Leonnatus (talk) 03:46, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Don't know if that's an acceptable source, but maybe the Know your Meme episode shows it's significant: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ancient-aliens --Jonas kork (talk) 10:01, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering that too. I'd like a third-party source of noteworthiness - David Gerard (talk) 10:11, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

I'd say Know Your Meme is noteworthy enough, it's very well-researched. 27.147.208.42 (talk) 06:00, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

I think the meme has gotten him more exposure than anything he's done himself, so why not be mentioned in the article? 24.129.77.232 (talk) 15:14, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree. The only reason I reached this page is I wanted to identify the dork in the image macro. From my perspective, that's the main reason he is notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.183.136.7 (talk) 22:14, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Added the Meme Section

So I took the liberty of adding in the Meme. I had a little trouble explaining it, and I couldn't find a site quickly that let me use their pictures, so I didn't upload it to Wikimedia. It needs some work, and a picture would be nice, but I think it's relevant. In the discussion above, others have agreed that it should be mentioned in the article, despite the lack of formality. I needs works though, and a picture.Michael Chase Jr (talk) 21:40, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Also, if anyone can verify the information, that would be great. I only used one source, and I'm not sure how reliable my source was.Michael Chase Jr (talk) 21:42, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

knowyourmeme only is not a good enough source for that kind of info. It might be accurate (and it is) but it's not proper to add that kind of silly information to someone's biography if it hasn't been documented in high-quality reliable sources. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 09:24, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, I was a little reluctant to put it in there in the first place, but I though it wouldn't hurt. It was a little silly. Thanks! Michael Chase Jr (talk) 17:50, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I disagree. I think there is no policy prohibiting "silly" information. The only criterion is WP:NOTABLE. If there be a policy WP:NOTSILLY, most of the religious stub articles should be disposed of because of "silly-level" quality. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 08:41, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Notice that I didn't say "silly" material is not allowed, read the full sentence. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 13:53, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

It seems to me extraordinarily silly that this article cannot discuss this man's Internet ubiquity in a memeset emblematic of ridiculous ideas. Your standards are not without merit but they really need to be reviewed when they result in this kind of nonsense. Sebum-n-soda (talk) 16:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I don't make the rules. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 20:05, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

12 year director

He's 33 years old and has been director of the Center for "over 12 years"? So he became director when he was 21 or less, when he was still in college? BarkingMoon (talk) 19:20, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

It's impossible that he was born in 1978 when already in 1991 he had begun to work with the Swiss Amateur Federation and in 1992, with the IFBB, even creating Pro Bodybuilding Productions once he moved to the United States. See the 2002 article by Brian Owens at the Ithaca College Quarterly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by QueerIV (talk • contribs) 07:25, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Is such a thing even possible? 99.225.143.47 (talk) 17:05, 10 May 2015 (UTC)″

Yes it is 86.24.167.128 (talk) 14:48, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

San Fransisco Pro Grand Prix

Just leaving this as a note to future editors:

If someone wonders why the year date 2001–2005 even though his own tweet says 2000–2005, it's because the competition wasn't held in 2000. It used to have its own article that stated this, so there was no need to note it in any way here. His statement about 2000–2005 is likely also true, only it likely means that he was hired in 2000 and then held his first show in 2001. Mr. Magoo (talk) 10:34, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Citizenship?

Any sources on his citizenship? TuckerResearch (talk) 18:56, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

In several of his appearances on Ancient Aliens, he has said he was born Swiss. Thosbsamsgom (talk) 02:00, 13 February 2022 (UTC)