Talk:Girl (Pharrell Williams album)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2014

The first sentence in the "Music and Lyrics" section should read "The album's first single" rather than "The album's fifth single", because "Happy" was the first and, so far, only single from the album. Quickgiant (talk) 00:56, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

This fix was made by another editor. RudolfRed (talk) 02:03, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

A correction i would like to submit is Black Lot Music nor its logo is on Pharrell Williams new album G I R L,but that his newly formed i Am Other LLC label/company & Columbia Records are listed on the back of his new album case. Thank you for viewing my correction Thank You — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gio1766 (talk • contribs) 02:35, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 03:01, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

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Girl (Pharrell Williams album) → G I R L – The album is called G I R L, not Girl. Unreal7 (talk) 15:22, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

• Support. The media outlets cited in the article's critical reception section overwhelmingly favor G I R L. If reliable sources call it that, so should we. Hot Stop talk-contribs 16:46, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
• Support. The album has a correct name; it is not our place to invent an incorrect one and present this incorrect information to the reader. bd2412 T 16:56, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. G I R L is stylization. Like ARTPOP, etc. — Status (talk · contribs) 17:45, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose. Per Status comment. Look at other album titles such as Shakira, Beyonce or Prism which also are rid of the stylization. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 17:46, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

True, but for both Prism and Beyoncé we're actually following the style used by reliable sources. (I couldn't info for Shakira.). In this case, we are treating the title differently from reliable sources and making up our own title. Hot Stop talk-contribs 18:11, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

We are not making up our own title. G I R L = Girl, only in the first case the title is stylized and is against the policy of Wikipedia, that's the reason we add the note in the lead that the title is stylized as G I R L. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 18:21, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

It's not a stylisation. It's called G I R L. Unreal7 (talk) 19:43, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

• Weak support The article title may be capitalized per Wikipedia:Article titles; however I believe that it'd be more efficient and more accesible to move the article to GIRL, instead of G I R L, as seen on MBV article. Myxomatosis57 (talk) 20:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

GIRL redirects to Girl, and I think it should be left that way. But we can always use GIRL (album) as a redirect to G I R L, the same applies to Girl (Pharrell Williams album). — Mayast (talk) 20:36, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

• Support per Hot Stop's comment. If you look at reviews in the rating box, all ten of them use G I R L as the album title. That wasn't the case with Beyoncé or Prism (it's too early to tell what about Shakira). — Mayast (talk) 20:31, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Oppose per MOS:TM. Mayast (talk) 14:18, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

• Note: looking through the page's history, it's important to point out that the article was created at "G I R L" and remained that way until two days ago. The closing admin should take that into account. Hot Stop talk-contribs 22:31, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

I would also add that it was moved without any prior discussion. Mayast (talk) 22:34, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose due to it being a stylization and WP:ALLCAPS applies. There most certainly is not a lack of reliable sources labeling it as "Girl"[1], [2], [3], so we are not making up a stylization. STATic message me! 22:44, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Well, the second source (RedEye) only uses "Girl" in the title, and then "G I R L" throughout the article, but that's insignificant. Mayast (talk) 23:26, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

• Note: Pharrell himself says Girl, not G I R L. — Status (talk · contribs) 22:56, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

That's just the pronunciation. Unreal7 (talk) 01:08, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Exactly... That's the point. G I R L is a stylization. You still pronounce it as Girl. Pink is stylized as P!nk. Kesha is stylized as Ke$ha. — Status (talk · contribs) 03:42, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

And here's another video of him explaining that the album is called Girl, but that he put it in capital letters with spaces in between each letter because "when you look at it, it looks a little weird". That's a stylization of the word Girl. It's still called Girl. Period. — Status (talk · contribs) 03:58, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

It's pronounced "girl", but not spelt that way. INXS's name is spelt out. Unreal7 (talk) 11:05, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't think you understand the fact that spacing is not part of the spelling of a word. Spacing is styling. INXS is a spelling (and it's pronounced in-excess). — Status (talk · contribs) 13:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose MOS:TM -- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 06:35, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose Per the comments above also opposing the proposed move. livelikemusic ^{my talk page!} 18:10, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose MOS:TM includes pointless stylization. The album is pronounced "Girl" not "Gee-aigh-arr-ell". In ictu oculi (talk) 01:04, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Out of interest, on an Android "g space i space r space l" gives G I R L and G.I.R.L. Squad as the two options, wheras "Girl Ph..." gives only Girl (Pharrell Williams album). So for Android users this RM has only downside. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:14, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. I don't even see it stylised as "G I R L", but instead simply "GIRL" with particularly wide kerning. JIP | Talk 06:08, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

About 90-95% of reliable sources use capitals and spaces. Unreal7 (talk) 19:14, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Do you realize that that's not the point here, it's still a stylization of the title and it's against the policy that Wikipedia uses. G I R L is a stylized title of the word Girl, even Pharrell pronounce it 'girl' in the dozens of interviews Status posted. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 19:19, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Editrequest

Please add a hatnote to the diambiguation page, as "G I R L" currently redirects here, and could easily be a emphasis form for many of the other entries.

{{redirect|GIRL|other uses|girl (disambiguation)}}

"GIRL" redirects here. For other uses, see girl (disambiguation).

-- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 06:38, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I added the hatnote. jhsounds (talk) 11:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 2

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 20:31, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

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Girl (Pharrell Williams album) → G I R L – MOS:TM is a guideline; WP:COMMONNAME is a policy. The previous discussion took place very close to the album release; the album has been out for quite awhile now and sources still overwhelmingly prefer "G I R L". MOS:TM even says, "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules, even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting 'official', as long as this is a style already in widespread use, rather than inventing a new one." –Chase (talk / contribs) 16:57, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose: This sort of decorative styling seems like exactly what MOS:TM (wisely) says to avoid, and I seriously doubt it will be followed consistently by reliable sources – especially in the long run. It's a WP:RECENT topic, so we haven't seen much of the long run yet. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:50, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

• And right now, very few (if any) sources use "Girl", so if we're going by MOS:TM then the article shouldn't be at its current title. –Chase (talk / contribs) 17:53, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

• See prior discussion from March. There are sources that call it "Girl" (per comments from STATic), and the artist himself says that it's just a styling of that word and he doesn't pronounce the title as "G-space-I-space-R-space-L" (per comments from Status and In ictu oculi, not to mention JIP's comment about kerning). —BarrelProof (talk) 17:56, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

• 3 sources ≠ "widespread use". Pronunciation isn't relevant if the vast majority of sources use the "stylized" title. It isn't Wikipedia's job to format everything according to how it's pronounced; it's our job to follow the standard that has been set by third party sources. –Chase (talk / contribs) 18:35, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. G I R L is a stylization of Girl, thus this is the real name of the article. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 18:36, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Unreal7 (talk) 21:50, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose, the lettering in the title may be typographically spaced quite liberally but there aren't necessarily word spaces between the letters. There and immediate strike.

Support as G I R L (Pharrell Williams album). The stylisation shouldn't be enough to disambiguate but it is how it is most regularly done. See: girl pharrell williams Gregkaye ✍♪ 22:13, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose Reliable sources employ the current title so the employment of the stylized name is entirely unnecessary. If there was an insignificant number of sources with the current title than I'd be in support but that's not the case here (ex: Rolling Stone[4]). As note earlier, MOS:TM was created specifically to avoid these types of scenarios.--Labattblueboy (talk) 01:26, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Nothing has changed since the last RM. Moreover, I still stand by my comments in the last RM. — Status (talk · contribs) 02:29, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - absolutely not. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:11, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose per March 2014. GIRL should be repointed to the disambiguation page -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 05:33, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:ALLCAPS Snuggums (talk / edits) 07:17, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• Due to the spaced-out formatting, it's less one all-caps word and more four one-letter words (despite the pronunciation). –Chase (talk / contribs) 17:00, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose essentially per Tomica - G I R L is basically Girl without the caps, I personally see no need to change it. –Davey2010 • (talk) 13:33, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• Is it Wikipedia's job to decide what the "real title" of an artwork is, especially when the vast majority of sources use the official title? If Girl was "basically" the title, it wouldn't be listed at retailers with the spaced-out title, nor reported by most sources with that title. –Chase (talk / contribs) 15:23, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• We don't go with what sources say, We use Common sense and name articles appropriately, G I R L is basically Girl no matter what you or sources say, You don't pronounce the album by letter .... It's spoken as "Girl", The song is in relation to Girl(s) therefore it's Girl. –Davey2010 • (talk) 15:41, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• "We don't go with what sources say" Oh, we don't? WP:V and WP:COMMONNAME (policies, not guidelines like MOSTM) seem to suggest we do. –Chase (talk / contribs) 16:22, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• I would say, yeah, we do go according to sources, however, in this case this isn't an abbreviation divided by full stops. Pharrell told that the album's name is inspired by women and girls obviously, so why stylize a title when it's not necessary? — Tomíca^(T2ME) 16:27, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• Because it is the COMMONNAME. 4 sources have been presented between these two discussions referring to the album as Girl; yet the vast majority prefer G I R L. –Chase (talk / contribs) 22:34, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• (EC) Not all the time no, As I said we generally use common sense (& to a certain extent follow iar) and to me changing the name is nonsensical. –Davey2010 • (talk) 16:38, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• WP:COMMONSENSE and WP:IAR apply in instances where following rules harms the encyclopedia, not when editors don't like the formatting that is employed in most reliable sources and want to evade policies such as COMMONNAME just because they don't like the way a common name looks as an article title. –Chase (talk / contribs) 17:02, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

• I fully agree with you Davey. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 16:40, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

• Strong oppose Per oppositions above, and previous decision when request was made prior to this one. livelikemusic ^{my talk page!} 20:24, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
• Neutral on G I R L (Pharrell Williams album) and GIRL (Pharrell Williams album), but oppose removing the precious disambiguation in favor of a vague proposed title. --George Ho (talk) 10:38, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

By the way, anyone must read Talk:GetItRight (Miley Cyrus song). --George Ho (talk) 10:41, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Well that certainly gave me a few laughs ... Well.. I've seen it all now!.... –Davey2010 • (talk) 17:03, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

And Talk:LoveGame#Requested move. --George Ho (talk) 04:11, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Well it certainly doesn't get any better!, You'd think the initial request was stupid enough and then all the "Opposers" come along and make it even more ridiculous!..... There's some things in life best left unanswered. –Davey2010 • (talk) 04:19, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

• Suppport. This is a prime example of of editors preferring to adhere to made up rules rather than using a standard name widely preferred by reliable sources. -- Calidum 03:25, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

What about using official title style and disambiguation at the same time? --George Ho (talk) 04:12, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140208013608/https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/happy-from-despicable-me-2/id783656910 to https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/happy-from-despicable-me-2/id783656910
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140310143229/http://news.iheart.com/articles/trending-475573/listen-pharrell-williams-addresses-album-cover-12111689/ to http://news.iheart.com/articles/trending-475573/listen-pharrell-williams-addresses-album-cover-12111689/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140512214203/http://frequencynews.com/musiclibrary_detail.cfm?LabelID=7&ArtistID=818&AlbumID=1190&SingleID=4071 to http://frequencynews.com/musiclibrary_detail.cfm?LabelID=7&ArtistID=818&AlbumID=1190&SingleID=4071
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150823091014/http://www.ariacharts.com.au/chart/urban-albums to http://www.ariacharts.com.au/chart/urban-albums
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150111061700/http://www.aria.com.au/aria-charts-end-of-year-charts-top-100-albums-2014.htm to http://aria.com.au/aria-charts-end-of-year-charts-top-100-albums-2014.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150101030807/http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/the-official-top-40-biggest-selling-artist-albums-of-2014-3387/ to http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/the-official-top-40-biggest-selling-artist-albums-of-2014-3387/

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