Talk:Girls' Generation discography

Sales numbers

I've looked at all the sales numbers, and its horrible - none of the sources are reliable (including allkpop) and not only that, the sources will flat out contradict what the discography states.

Can anyone find some real sources for the sales numbers, please? ²¹nolja 09:54, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Cover use

To. User:Esradekan

I think my material's satisfying the WP:NFC, WP:NFCC policy below.

“ There is no automatic entitlement to use non-free content in an article. Articles may in accordance with the guideline use brief verbatim textual excerpts from copyrighted media, properly attributed or cited to its original source or author. Other non-free content—including all copyrighted images, audio and video clips, and other media files that lack a free content license—may be used on the English Wikipedia only where all 10 of the following criteria are met.

1. No free equivalent. Non-free content is used only where no free equivalent is available, or could be created, that would serve the same encyclopedic purpose. Where possible, non-free content is transformed into free material instead of using a fair-use defense, or replaced with a freer alternative if one of acceptable quality is available; "acceptable quality" means a quality sufficient to serve the encyclopedic purpose. (As a quick test, before adding non-free content requiring a rationale, ask yourself: "Can this non-free content be replaced by a free version that has the same effect?" and "Could the subject be adequately conveyed by text without using the non-free content at all?" If the answer to either is yes, the non-free content probably does not meet this criterion.)
2. Respect for commercial opportunities. Non-free content is not used in a manner that is likely to replace the original market role of the original copyrighted media.
3.  Minimal usage. Multiple items of non-free content are not used if one item can convey equivalent significant information. Minimal extent of use. An entire work is not used if a portion will suffice. Low- rather than high-resolution/fidelity/bit rate is used (especially where the original could be used for deliberate copyright infringement). This rule also applies to the copy in the File: namespace.
4. Previous publication. Non-free content must have been published or publicly displayed outside Wikipedia.
5. Content. Non-free content meets general Wikipedia content standards and is encyclopedic.
6. Media-specific policy. The material meets Wikipedia's media-specific policy. For example, images must meet Wikipedia:Image use policy.
7. One-article minimum. Non-free content is used in at least one article.
8. Significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding.
9. Restrictions on location. Non-free content is allowed only in articles (not disambiguation pages), and only in article namespace, subject to exemptions. (To prevent an image category from displaying thumbnails, add __NOGALLERY__ to it; images are linked, not inlined, from talk pages when they are a topic of discussion.)
10. Image description page. The image or media description page contains the following: Identification of the source of the material, supplemented, where possible, with information about the artist, publisher and copyright holder; this is to help determine the material's potential market value. See: Wikipedia:Citing sources#When uploading an image. A copyright tag that indicates which Wikipedia policy provision is claimed to permit the use. For a list of image copyright tags, see Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Non-free content. The name of each article (a link to each article is also recommended) in which fair use is claimed for the item, and a separate, specific fair-use rationale for each use of the item, as explained at Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline. The rationale is presented in clear, plain language and is relevant to each use.

”

“ Some copyrighted images may be used on Wikipedia, providing they meet both the legal criteria for fair use, and Wikipedia's own guidelines for non-free content. Copyrighted images that reasonably can be replaced by free/libre images are not suitable for Wikipedia.

1. Cover art: Cover art from various items, for identification only in the context of critical commentary of that item (not for identification without critical commentary).
2. Team and corporate logos: For identification. See Wikipedia:Logos.
3. Stamps and currency: For identification of the stamp or currency, not its subject.
4. Other promotional material: Posters, programs, billboards, ads. For critical commentary.
5. Film and television screen shots: For critical commentary and discussion of the cinema and television.
6. Screenshots from software products: For critical commentary.
7. Paintings and other works of visual art: For critical commentary, including images illustrative of a particular technique or school.
8. Images with iconic status or historical importance: As subjects of commentary.

”

In addition myself, following USA Law

“ Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

”

Furthermore it can be cited from Copyright Act of South Korea, because these album covers are all in jurisdiction of Korean law.

Anyway I will explain about this case, all albums of the musical group don't have each article. Limited articles about special notable albums or songs can be created, but we have rights to get freely the information of their albums, songs including album covers as well as the other websites. No doubt about Wikipedia non-free content policy being polite, kindly, appropriate. Also I understand and respect it. However the matter you suggested, may not become trouble situations because the translation and application of law, rule, principle is some various in the allowed, limited extent. I think this case is no matter. These album covers what put in, are used just for indentifying them, very definately minimalized place of this page. You know, the images are not used for profit. Most album of the musical group don't have individual article page, you need to face it. Here article about "Discography" is a place concentrated from the musician's album information, sources being so far as to include the albums that don't have their own article pages. Discography articla page is a only space for the rest of their albums' images, various facts. I hope that you can see this case would not make problems.
-- Kookyunii (talk) 17:09, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Read Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Images_2, where it says "an album cover as part of a discography, as per the above." There is no critical commentary on any of the covers and the covers belong in the albums page and not the discography page. Visit MOS:DISCOGS for a better understanding of what a discography page is for. MS (Talk|Contributions) 18:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply: I (as much as I hate the word) assume you read WP:NFC instead of just cutting & pasting it here, because it seems to me you missed the bit in WP:NFC#Unacceptable use where it says, regarding album covers in a discography, that they are not allowed. You open your debate here by pointing us in the direction of WP:NFC & WP:NFCC. Please have a look at the discussion pages of those links, where you'll see your exact argument has been used to try and allow the use of album covers in a discography page, and has repeatedly been disallowed by users and admins alike per USA law. And on that note, Wikipedia is a registered company in the US, so is therefore subject to US copyright law, not Korean.

As a side note, I'm not going to get into further discussion over it here, because this has been going on for years, and was sorted ages ago, as you'll see when you have a looksie at the archived talk pages of those links you quoted. So I'll let them do the talking for me. However, I can point you in the direction of a few Administrators who will be able to answer any image rationale questions you may have. Just drop me a line. Cheers and Happy Editing.  Esradekan Gibb  ^"Klat" 00:36, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

LG Cooky Music Video

Hi! There is the 'Cooky' music viedo (advertisement of an LG Cyon mobile phone) released just a little while ago (details on the actual article) and I suggest it should be added in the singles section just like 'Chocolate Love' music video, made for advertisement of another LG Cyon mobile. Farjad0322 9 May 2010. Thanks in advance. :)

Promotional songs

Most of the songs under Promotional singles are singles not promotional singles. Please edit back the page how it was before because Gee, Genie, The Boys etc were official singles not promotional songs. Penpaperpencil (Talk) 07:21, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Sales Number 2

I've checked sales number in Gaon chart on a monthly base (2011 & 2012, as 2010 only has final year numbers) and some numbers do not match with the yearly total. I suppose what should be more accurate is the final yearly numbers? For instance, number for The Second Album `Oh!`during 2011: Yearly number: 20588; per month sum: 21443. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.145.60.134 (talk) 13:27, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

These sections don't belong here

This section is about two compilation albums containing personal selections of j-pop and english pop by the group. This article is their discography, not for various artists.

Other albums

Title	Album information
Sweet Memories with Girls' Generation	Song selection album (Not sung by Girls' Generation) Release: February 18, 2008 Label: SM Entertainment Formats: CD
Heart 2 Heart with Girls' Generation	Song selection album (Not sung by Girls' Generation) Release: March 17, 2008 Label: SM Entertainment Formats: CD

This section describes "Photobooks". This is a discography, not a photobook-agraphy. This section could be moved to the main page, Girls' Generation, if necessary.

Photobooks

Year	Title	Release date	Sales
2010	Girls' Generation 1st Photobook in Tokyo	June 2, 2010
2011	All About Girls Generation: Paradise in Phuket	February 8, 2011
	1st Japan Official Photobook: Holiday	November 30, 2011	33,415+<ref>SNSD and 2PM's Photobooks ranks well in Quarter sales chart in Japan</ref>

As per WP:DISCOGSTYLE, I'm moving this to the talk page.

ps. It still appears on the article for now, because I'm still editing it. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 10:33, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Things taken off

Previously, the discography also included guest appearances by members as either individuals or subgroups on other artists' recordings or on OSTs, CFs, etc. However, this is no longer present. Why was it taken off? Seemed relevant and I am sure people put in a lot of work creating it. It was very useful information! Can it please be put back on? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mtimpson (talk • contribs)

This is the discography for them as a group. For guest appearances individually or with other members, please see their individual pages under the section "Discography". Also please remember to sign your comments on any talk page with four tildes (~~~~). Thank you. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 12:04, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Why two Singles lists?

There is two Singles lists, one with the title "Singles" and the other as "Other charted songs". Unless I am missing something here -- and I am pretty sure the wiki-article is the one missing something -- is there any justified basis for the two categories. If a song has charted, is it not thereby a single? Ought not these lists therefore be merged? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:44B8:41CD:3800:44BE:C123:53ED:76F5 (talk) 11:37, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Nope. Singles are individual releases separate from an entire album. They usually contain one or two songs, the A-side and B-side (except of course when it's a double A-side single). Almost every singles' chart charts per song, not single. This also includes songs that were released as part of another release, like track #5 or #8 on an album which were not released separately as a single. These are the songs under "Other charted songs". This is the style used with all major discographies. It also provides better comprehension by listing it separately. Also, please sign your comments on any talk Page with four tildes (~~~~) Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 13:05, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Korean Sales of Japanese albums

Is there any source for the Korean sales of Girls&Peace and Love&Peace? — Preceding unsigned comment added by KweenSooyoung (talk • contribs) 15:31, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

• I can't find any, so they will be removed shortly. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 09:27, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Reissues section

I do not believe that a separate reissues section would be beneficial for this page. Yes, Rihanna discography does have a separate section but keep in mind that that specific reissue actually has plenty of notable coverage to warrant its own article as compared to the reissues on this page, which don't. It might also be a tad confusing to see which album is a reissue of what, since they alternated the titles. Seeing as this version was the one accepted when the page was nominated for featured list status, it should be kept that way. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 06:17, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

@Raykyogrou0: But they have different rel. dates, chart pos as well as sales figures. Simon (talk) 08:40, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Korean charts seem to be counting the original release and the reissues as one album, so it doesn't make that much of a difference with regards to its charting positions or lack thereof. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 13:40, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

@Raykyogrou0: Not exactly. Oh! and Run Devil Run charted separately and had different sales figures according to source given. Simon (talk) 14:02, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Hmm yes. But keep in mind that it is alone in that. The album's article already indicates that it charted separately (the refs should be updated btw), but is it absolutely essential to indicate that on the discography page within a separate section? Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 07:19, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Italics

@Raykyogrou0: Not all website names are italicized. I don't think Oricon and Gaon are online magazines, newspapers, or news sites. Oricon Albums Chart and Gaon Music Chart do not have italics in the article titles. Random86 (talk) 00:31, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Let me quote from WP:MOSTITLE: "Website titles may or may not be italicized depending on the type of site and what kind of content it features. Online magazines, newspapers, and news sites with original content should generally be italicized". Oricon and Gaon provide news with original content (the weekly charts and news articles), so they qualify. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 06:59, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Singles sales

Could someone make a section for digital downloads for title and non-title tracks. I know that they are included on some individual song pages but many aren't or are outdated. It seems silly to have a dedicated section for chart positions, and a pretty scarce one at that, and not a section for digital downloads when many other acts such as EXO, Red Velvet, and F(x) have them for practically every track ever charted. Also, it would also be nice to update the Japanese singles section to include sales numbers and not just certifications, the former of which is completely absent from the last few releases, like many other discography pages. I noticed that there is a template advising users not to include the download figures, with no expiry date, yet many other pages do and therefore providemore reliable information about the artist's commercial performance. --EnderAtreides117 (talk) 07:53, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

I Noticed that the download figures removed, why does this not belong here when it adds plenty of value to the page and other pages are allowed to be added to and updated with no opposition, particularly big bang --EnderAtreides117 (talk) 09:58, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Please look at the note at the top of the page when you click the "edit" button. This is a featured list on Wikipedia, so please keep it in line with the format of other featured discography pages. Thank you.--TerryAlex (talk) 14:30, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

EnderAtreides117 (talk · contribs) I don't understand. Which digital download chart positions are not included? I'm talking about songs which only charted on that chart and not any other chart. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 05:56, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Raykyogrou0 (talk · contribs) I don't understand. I was talking about how often each track was downloaded, not their chart positions.--EnderAtreides117 (talk) 06:01, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

EnderAtreides117 (talk · contribs) You're talking about sales figures. It has already been explained over and over why we don't include them here. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, which includes excessive listings of statistics like sales figures. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 06:36, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

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Merger proposal: 2011 Girls' Generation Tour (album) and Into the New World (album)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

There was no discussion beyond the initial proposal. The pages were eventually redirected to Girls' Generation discography. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 06:45, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

---

I suggest that the articles 2011 Girls' Generation Tour (album) and Into the New World (album) be merged into this article as per WP:NALBUMS: despite the fact that the two albums appeared on the Gaon Chart, there is barely any discussion about the two albums around the Web, and the topic is too narrow to cover. Simon (talk) 06:26, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reissues

As Girls' Generation have released multiple reissues with separate chart positions and sales figures, I think it is necessary that a new section for "Reissues" be included. However since there may be debate on this topic I will leave it here in the Talk page and look forward to comments. — Simon (talk) 05:21, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

@Random86:, @Raykyogrou0: I want to hear from you guys. — Simon (talk) 16:08, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

You are referring to this?--TerryAlex (talk) 16:14, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

@TerryAlex: Yes, that's right (also T-ara discography). — Simon (talk) 14:50, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Identity of Cho Yoon-sun article author

We do not know for sure that Cho Yoon-sun, the former Minister of Culture, is the same as the author of the article on Girls' Generation, even though they share the same name; however, we do know that Cho Yoon-sun, the former Minister of Culture, does write up cultural articles for both magazines and the web, and that she was interested in female musical groups. The label after the author's name on the article 동아닷컴 기자 (donga.com reporter) might indicate that the two are not the same. --Bejnar (talk) 20:10, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

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Sales figures for singles [update]

I have added sales figures to singles as sales figures reflect how Girls' Generation are successful in South Korea, where certifications for digital singles are unavailable. Several discographies have also added sales figures for singles i.e. Mariah Carey and Katy Perry. — Simon (talk) 12:07, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

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Singles table should be sorted by date

Singles must be sorted by date, and should not be separated by the Korean or Japanese language. Please see example Shakira discography. She released English and Spanish language song and other artist in Wikipedia, they sorted the single by date same. So this must change same other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zealous37 (talk • contribs) 04:52, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

@Zealous37: Please wait for consensus for such changes in future. Great; it's done at Shakira discography. That's not a policy or a guideline; it's just an example you're showing us because you think it should be like that. That's not the way it has to be. Ss112 20:58, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

@Ss112: I began sorted by Language in many years ago. But I think this time, discography must be same other articles that must sort by date. Please add this policy because other Korean artist discography will almost use this discography to be a template. comment added by Zealous37)