Talk:Givat Shaul

Merkaz Harav

Merkaz harav is in kiryat Moshe. It is a block and a half away from givat shaul, but not actually in Givat Shaul and that is the reason why I removed it earlier. Leppi 12:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

It is widely regarded and referred to as Givat Shaul by everybody I know. Everybody I know regards Tzvi Yehuda / Kanfei Nesharim to be the divider of Kiryat Moshe and Givat Shaul, meaning that Clalit there is in KM while Merkaz is in GS. You have to draw the line somewhere. --169.132.18.249 12:57, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

The line that draws the border is Nagara, not Harav-Tzvi-Yehuda. And just because everybody refers to it being in givat shaul, does not negate the fact that in actuality it is in kiryat moshe. Leppi 05:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

If I may point out, if you look in the hebrew wikipedia, merkaz harav is listed as being in Kiryat Moshe. Now, while I don't have documented proof yet (because I don't know how to check these things), I did go to the yeshiva and ask what neighboorhood they are in. everyone I asked, first looked at me like I was crazy and then told me it was in kiryat moshe. I stand firm. Merkaz harav is NOT in Givat Shaul. Leppi 11:02, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Earlier I did not change back what I had changed because I did not have a source saying that Merkaz HaRav is in Kiryat Moshe. To quote from the article: "The 8:45 p.m. shooting at the yeshiva in the Kiryat Moshe neighborhood"

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1204546422275 The yeshiva is not located in Givat Shaul. Leppi (talk) 10:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Picture of Kanfei Nesharim

While Kanfei Nesharim does divide Kiryat Moshe and Givat Shaul, the picture shown is of Rechov HaRav Tzvi Yehuda, not Kanfei Nesharim. Leppi 12:50, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Done. You could have done that yourself. ;) --169.132.18.249 12:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

lol. I wish I could. Don't know how though! Leppi 05:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Deir Yassin

The fact that you live or lived in Givat Shaul doesn't mean you are the only one who decides what is appropriate for this page. Givat Shaul is not the same as Deir Yassin, which has a page of its own for all the gory details. As I wrote in the edit summary, a short account of how the residents of Givat Shaul intervened and helped to save Arab lives is fine, but to devote 3/4 of this small page to that event is WP:UNDUE. In addition, Meir Pa'il writes on his page that no part of it can be reproduced for any purpose without his approval.--Gilabrand (talk) 14:11, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

If Givat Shaul is not the same as Deir Yassin, then why do we have reliable sources that say: "After the Deir Yassin Massacre the depopulated village was settled by Israelis and renamed Givat Shaul Bet." ? It is well known that Deir Yassin was located at the location which is now the end of Rechov Kanfei Nesharim, the entrance to Har Nof, where there is a large Egged parking lot (the terminal of the 35). This area is indeed officially known as Givat Shaul Bet, though nowadays it would be much more logical to call it Har Nof. In my eyes, it's Har Nof, but that's just not the way it is officially called. Check any proper map. So, we have now established that yes, Givat Shaul (Bet) and Deir Yassin are indeed one and the same location.

Next, according to the rules that I know, excerpting small pieces of text from a larger text as quotes is fully permitted according to the law. For example, a reviewer who copied some sections of a book in order to write a review on it, is not doing anything wrong. However, if you insist, I will rewrite the entire section in a different version. Further, instead of complaining about "WP:UNDUE", perhaps you could work on expanding the page, then? I might also mention that several things which I added about Givat Shaul were deleted because of WP:OR. (By the way, I live on Rechov Givat Shaul.)

Now, finally: I will revert this again. If there are still complaints about a possible copyright issue, I will take the pains of rewriting the entire eyewitness account upon myself. However, please let me know about that here instead of just pressing the revert button. --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 08:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

If Meir Pa'il is a reliable source, and he says that Deir Yassin and Givat Shaul are not one and the same, then the fact that you live there has no relevance. Putting a lengthy discussion of Deir Yassin on the Givat Shaul page is not acceptable. If you believe that Meir Pa'il's version of events is worthy, put it on the Deir Yassin page.--Gilabrand (talk) 09:00, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Where does it say so? Please read again. We have a reliable source that says: "After the Deir Yassin Massacre the depopulated village was settled by Israelis and renamed Givat Shaul Bet." Note that at the time, Givat Shaul was the area which is know around Rechov Givat Shaul, Rechov Reines, Rechov Amram Gaon, Rechov Najara (the old Givat Shaul). The area of Deir Yassin only became known as 'Givat Shaul Bet' later on. Otherwise, create a separate article for Givat Shaul Bet... that would solve your problem. Please check the sources before writing such things. About Meir Pail being a reliable source: we are merely presenting this as his words, not as the ultimate truth, are we? --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 09:14, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Here is a map illustrating the location of Deir Yassin, compared to Givat Shaul, Kiryat Moshe and Beit HaKerem. As you can see, that location corresponds roughly with the end of Rechov Kanfei Nesharim, the entrance to Har Nof. See here. --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 09:16, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

As described here: The central part of Deir Yassin is a cluster of buildings now used as a mental hospital. To the east lies the industrial area of Givat Shaul; to the north lies Har Hamenuchot (the Jewish cemetery), to the west, built into the side of the mountain on which Deir Yassin is located is Har Nof, a new settlement of orthodox Jews. To the south is a steep valley terraced and containing part of the Jerusalem Forest. On the other side of that valley, roughly a mile and a half from Deir Yassin and in clear view of it, are Mount Herzl and the Jewish Holocaust memorial Yad Vashem.[1] This mental hospital is located on the corner of Rechov Katzenellenbogen and Rechov Kablan, right opposite the Egged building. Indeed, this is nowadays Har Nof - but officially, it is called Givat Shaul Bet. Actually Deir Yassin can be described as having been exactly on the border of Givat Shaul Bet (=the Egged depot, Kanfei Nesharim, Beit HaDfus) and Har Nof (=Katzenellenbogen, Kablan). --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 09:20, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

See also: [2]. The green line is Rechov Kanfei Nesharim. The location of Deir Yassin is called Kfar Shaul on the map (indeed, that is also the name Egged gives to that location, which is now the end station of the 15 and 35). The southern side, facing Beit HaKerem and the Ein Kerem hospital, is called Givat Shaul Bet. This is the area of Katzenellenbogen immediately to the south of the Egged depot. --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 09:24, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

A blog is not a reliable source. Deir Yassin was northeast of Givat Shaul. The two were separate communities. Since you live in Givat Shaul, why don't you devote yourself to filling out the article rather than parroting stuff you find on blogs and elevating it to genuine history.--Gilabrand (talk) 09:50, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

If you call this a blog:

Milstein, Uri [1987] (1998). History of the War of Independence IV: Out of Crisis Came Decision (in Hebrew, English version translated and edited by Alan Sacks). Lanhan, Maryland: University Press of America, Inc.. ISBN 0-7618-1489-2. : Chapter 16: Deir Yassin, Section 12: The Massacre

Then I'm afraid I have nothing more to say and I cannot talk to you any further. --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 10:35, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

By the way, I have never claimed that Deir Yassin was the same as Givat Shaul. You are not reading what I am writing. I am saying that it is now known as Givat Shaul Bet - which is proven, see above. According to the above 'blog' (in your words), among others. And this article is about Givat Shaul, including Givat Shaul Bet. Satisfied now? I am not going to explain this again. --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 10:40, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

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Jerusalem map by neighbourhoods needed

See discussion at Talk:Jerusalem#Map by neighbourhoods needed. Arminden (talk) 18:48, 16 January 2022 (UTC)