Talk:Glass Wings

Image

Any idea why the image (Glass_Wings.jpg)was deleted? Doesn't the uploader get a warning when an image is deleted? Ninja neko 12:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Just to note, a new image was uploaded with proper sourcing/rationale. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:00, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Relatively negative reviews

Concerning this revert of this edit of mine: The statement "Glass Wings has received relatively negative reviews from English-speaking audiences." is ambiguous. It can be read as "Glass Wings has received several relatively negative reviews from English-speaking audiences." This way, it is supported by the following references to negative reviews. However, it can also be taken to mean that most reviews from English-speaking audiences for Glass Wings were relatively negative. By this reading, the statement would need to be cited to every last review from English-speaking audiences, which is of course impossible, or to a reliable secondary source, making such an assessment. Either way, the statement needs to be cited or reworded. Goodraise 23:58, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Does it? In Tokyo Mew Mew, it says Tokyo Mew Mew was generally well received by reviewers, who described it as cute and entertaining and Over all Tokyo Mew Mew a La Mode had more mixed reviews. Both of these are unreferenced, and get the point across. Unless there is something very different between these statements and the one here. If there is, how can I implement it? Thanks for the suggestion. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 00:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

The first statement attributes the opinion ("generally well recieved") to a number of reviews ("who described it as cute and entertaining") which are cited in the following text. The second statement is different in that it states the existence of disagreement, which is easier to cite than a statement of consensus. Though, I'm not perfectly happy with the "more" in the second statement. - Anyways, my point is, slight changes in the wording can turn a sentence from a summary into original research. - But to answer your question: "Glass Wings has received several relatively negative reviews from English-speaking audiences." would be an acceptable wording, if that is (as I strongly assume) what was intended. (This may bring up the question why I didn't change the wording myself instead of tagging the statement with {{fact}}. That's a good question. The answer is, I'm a lazy editor who only wanted to justify his B1=N assessment before sneaking away from this article without feeling the need to watchlist it. My apologies.) Goodraise 01:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

It is intended to be a summary of the sentences that follow (much as the lead is a summary of the whole article). This is done in every FA series/film/anime/manga/etc article I've ever seen, not as a new fact, but a simple summarizing of what's following to transition into the reviews. If it is an inaccurate summary, it should be reworded, but otherwise it has never been a statement that required a reference before. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm aware of the intention. The intention is irrelevant. What matters is how it can be read. It can be read as something not supported by the sources. Therefore it must either be attributed to a different source or, as you correctly say, reworded, which is exactly what I said in the summary of the edit you reverted. Goodraise 01:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Various questions

I'm not familiar with this anthology. That said, while editing the article I've come across several things that are unclear or where I have otherwise questions. I'll list them here.

• "she usually likes her characters to look sexy" - Is "sexy" the word used in the book? If so, it should be placed in quotation marks as it is a bit too colloquial.
• Later in that sentence: "depending on the story" - What depends on the story?
• at that time she could not "draw it out precisely" - What time? While drawing "Glass Wings"?
• "had a very sad and tought past" - Is "tought" a misspelling in the manga? If so, it needs to be marked with {{sic}}.

That's it for now, I'll probably add more later. Goodraise 20:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

• Sexy is used, though maybe a better substitute would be sexually attractive.
• It only says "I don't like it to be wild and sexy (Well, depends on the story)."
• It says "Yeah. When I compare that ideal image in my head to what I am capable of drawing at this point, I realize I still have a lot of work to do." This is written in the postscript, so it would take place either during the creation (though I doubt this, considering the way the author speaks about it being her first book, and later comments on the creation of characters) are after.
• Tought was misspelling on my part; it should be tough.

Thank you for copyediting! WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 21:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

• "who must eat the flesh of corpses to survive. However, Yuinne chooses to not abide by these rules and only eat creatures that died of natural causes." - Createures that died of natural causes leave corpses too don't they? This doesn't make sense to me. Also, are these the rules of the clan? What happens if he violates them? Can he only survive on corpses? This is way too unclear.
• "Yuinne enjoys his time at the town" - What town?
• "Nakiri, a past clan member, sets out to kill him for leaving." - What is a "past clan member"?

As promised, some more questions. Goodraise 21:22, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

• The story wasn't honestly very well thought-out. At the beginning, Nakiri describes that they need to eat humans to survive (to answer the other question, Yuinne is tracked down because he leaves, which automatically makes him a traitor). Later, Yuinne is offered venison from a deer that had been shot, and explains that he only eats things that die naturally. However, this doesn't seem to include humans. I guess in the summary it could be described as his clan eating humans and killing for food, instead of just eating corpses. Yuinne had issues with humans and eating them because he killed a human for food, but couldn't stand looking at the face. But, for sure he can only survive on corpses, and whether or not humans taste better is left unclear. Nakiri makes it sound that way, but it's very difficult to see if it's true or not.
• Yuinne is brought to a town by the girl Mia, and he is allowed to stay at a cottage there.
• A past clan member, as in a someone who is part of the clan that Yuinne left.

Thanks! Feel free to keep asking if there is any more confusion. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 21:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

More questions

I guess I kinda forgot about this article. I'm sorry. Probably got entangled in something else. Adding to that my long period of near inactivity... Anyway. I'm back at it.

• "She explains that Tsubaki was not just an 'abnormal mother', but 'had a very sad and tough past'." - I don't understand the relationship here. What has one to do with the other?

Probably more to come. Goodraise 15:04, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. The author was a bit vague about it, but basically described the character as having a harsh past, attributing to her abnormal behavior. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 20:53, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

"She explains that Tsubaki was not just an 'abnormal mother', but 'had a very sad and tough past', causing her strange behavior towards her children." - I'm still a bit confused by this. What's bugging me is the word but. When I start a sentence, with "She explains that Tsubaki was not just an 'abnormal mother', but", then I'd finish that sentence with something like "[she was] also something else." Her having had a tough past doesn't fit. It would be great, if you could quote what she actually says. That way, I may be able to reword this somehow. Goodraise 04:51, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

How is it now? It's a bit of a difficult sentence because of the implications surrounding the author's wording: that the character wasn't simply abnormal, but previously suffered as well. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 00:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you even get what my problem with the passage is. It delivers several facts. 1) "when thinking of Tsubaki's youth, she imagined Tsubaki 'having an affair with two men and suffering from this very passionate yet complicated love.' 2) "'even someone like Tsubaki' was stricken with 'a very sad and tough past' 3) "the character 'wasn't just an abnormal mother'." -- The way you're presenting these facts is hinting to some connection between at least some of these facts, but you don't actually deliver that connection. What is the connection? Goodraise 21:49, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I understand what you mean, but that's just how the author wrote it. She never expanded. The actual line is "Even someone like Tsubaki had a sad and tough past. She wasn't just an abnormal mother." It's either the author or the translator's fault; I don't really know. I believe the author's intention was to say that even cruel characters (such as Tsubaki) had past issues, and that they were more than how they were presented. However, some might consider that original research. While the author probably intended to mean something of the sort, we cannot confirm the context. If the production section wasn't so dwindling, I'd be keen on removing it (which may be the best choice due to these clarity issues). If you could give me your opinion on that, it would be nice: is it obvious enough to present the author's writings as such, or would the information be OR? WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 22:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, you still haven't given me the entire quote. I assume the passage "having an affair with two men and suffering from this very passionate yet complicated love" appears in one of the neighboring sentences. At this point I can only guess. Anyway, taking facts A and B from a source and using them to draw conclusion C is original research. Taking facts A and B and arranging them so as to hint to the reader that he or she should draw conclusion C him- or herself is just as bad as far as I'm concerned. However, if you can't find a way to restate the authors view using paraphrasing and quoted bits without implying things that aren't actually said, then the solution is not to remove it all, but to use longer quotes. Let her speak for herself. Which brings me back to my previous request: What is the entire quote? Goodraise 03:04, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

• "After a brief battle, Nakiri promises to return" - It might be worth mentioning whom he is fighting. Is it Yuinne, the villagers, or both?

I expanded a bit. Calling it a battle implies the two fought, while it was more Yuinne responding to Nakiri's act of aggression against Mia. If it's a bit too detailed, I can change it to simply "stabbed by" or "attacked by". WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 00:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

• The article mentions several times the number of chapters a particular story is made up of. That's not really relevant unless the chapters have been published somewhere else. Have they?

Goodraise 04:47, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

They were originally published/serialized in the magazine Monthly Asuka. Unfortunately, I have no evidence to source this statement, other than the imprint the volume falls under. I believe Manga: The Complete Guide might have the information, but I have no access to the book. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 00:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga/Reference Library lists several editors you could ask to look into it for you. If that fails, you could also ask our specialist for help. Goodraise 05:21, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

• "Glass Wings was listed as 91 on the Top 100 Graphic Novels list for January 2006, which listed the estimated sales of the comic distributor Diamond to comic stores." - This leaves two open questions: Where is this happening? and Whose list is that?

Clarified and updated to the "Top 300" list. The article doesn't explicitly say where the sales are from, but it only records for the American branch. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 00:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Why did you change the URL? The page linked now doesn't even mention Glass Wings. Goodraise 02:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

That's it for the moment from me. By the way, have you thought about nominating the article for GA-status? Goodraise 04:51, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! I've thought about nominating it, but have been hesitant: I want to provide proof of its serialization and incorporate the German review (thank you for translating it, by the way). For the former, it's a matter of finding the right source. For the latter, I've seen various ways to incorporate translated reviews, but am still treading a bit carefully. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 00:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

The article mentions nothing about a serialization, does it? What magazine was it in? Regarding the reviews, just give it a shot, and I'll fix any mistakes you might make. Goodraise 14:33, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Translation of the German review linked in the External links section

• Einenkel, Sylvia (June 14, 2005). "Der Prinz mit den gläsernen Schwingen (Manga)". AnimePRO (in German). Animexx. Retrieved September 26, 2010. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |trans_title= ignored (|trans-title= suggested) (help)

"Der in drei Kapiteln abgeschlossene Einzelband wartet neben dem ergreifenden Fantasydrama von Hagane und Ruriha noch mit zwei weiteren Kurzgeschichten auf, Hotaru (jap. Glühwürmchen) und Himejion, die beide auf fantastische und tragische Art und Weise traurige Schicksale beschreiben, die gepaart mit dem unvergleichlich schönen und detailreichen Stil der Manga-ka eine einzigartige Mischung ergeben."

Translates to:

"The in three chapters finished single volume holds, aside from the moving fantasy drama of Hagane and Ruriha, another two short stories, Hotaru (Jap: Firefly) and Himejion, which both in a fantastic and tragic manner describe sad fates, which, coupled with the incomparably beautiful and detail rich style of the mangaka, yield a unique mixture."

To avoid any possible future legal questions: Yes, I created that translation myself. If you use it in the article, don't forget to give adequate attribution. Goodraise 05:23, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Translation of another German review

• Vuk, Mario (June 11, 2005). "Comic-Besprechung – Der Prinz mit den gläsernen Schwingen". Splashcomics (in German). Splashpages. Retrieved October 26, 2010. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |trans_title= ignored (|trans-title= suggested) (help)

Translation in progress. Goodraise 03:14, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The last two paragraphs of the linked review translate to:

Opinion:

This compilation of three short stories by Misuzu Asaoka appears very tight, atmospherically, seeing as all three stories deal with mysticism, love, life, death, and strong relationships between the main characters. The book as a whole thus gains a very tight coherence, with its three independent stories, which are not textually connected in any way. The drawings appear very dynamic, action heavy, and emotion-expressing. Unfortunately, this is not enough to compensate for the fact that its contents are difficult to understand, as almost no introduction is made for the stories and by the time one figures out what it is about the story is over already. The titular story stretches over three chapters, the following two only over one chapter each.

Conclusion:

Beautiful, engaging stories, which unfortunately are difficult to understand and therefore can provide little relaxed entertainment. Furthermore, the question remains why "The Prince with the Wings of Glass" is depicted on the cover as a "Prince with feathered Wings". Friends of mystical/gothic manga (for whom this manga appears to be worth reading exclusively) are also encouraged to produce a meta-meaning upon reading the book, which has so far eluded me.

To avoid any possible future legal questions: Yes, I created that translation myself. If you use it in the article, don't forget to give adequate attribution.

Sorry it took me so long. Forgot about it for some reason. Goodraise 22:59, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

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