Talk:GoatMan: How I Took a Holiday from Being Human

Requested move 9 September 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus, therefore, not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 19:24, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

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GoatMan: How I Took a Holiday from Being Human → GoatMan – Per WP:SUBTITLE and WP:DIFFCAPS. 142.160.89.97 (talk) 00:32, 9 September 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 22:19, 17 September 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Dreamy Jazz 🎷 ^{talk to me | my contributions} 21:01, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Hhkohh (talk) 01:11, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Seems a common name Hhkohh (talk) 01:11, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@Hhkohh: How do you reconcile your position with our book-specific guideline, WP:SUBTITLE, which states:

Usually, a Wikipedia article on a book (or other medium, such as a movie, TV special or video game) does not include its subtitle in the Wikipedia page name, per WP:CONCISE. The only exception to that is short article titles, for disambiguation purposes.

142.160.89.97 (talk) 01:07, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

WP:SUBTITLE is not a policy, just a guideline, see also WP:COMMONNAME and other related policy Hhkohh (talk) 09:45, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

• Support I see no issue with the requested move, and it abides by the given guideline. -- Alex^TW 03:38, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
• Support GoatMan (book) - Goatman is a DAB page that should be the target of a redirect from [{GoatMan]]. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:45, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@Power~enwiki: How do you reconcile that position with WP:DIFFCAPS, which is rather explicit about not doing that? 142.160.89.97 (talk) 05:15, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Other recent moves (such as some Deadmau5 ones) have suggested that using unusual capitalizations in titles of creative works are discouraged; MOS:TITLECASE doesn't explicitly say anything about camel-case in titles. power~enwiki (π, ν) 05:24, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't think that addresses the question, power~enwiki. What the existing title, my proposed title, and your proposed title share in common is that they use "camel case". So given that you, me, and the status quo are on the same page on that point, of what relevance is what you're saying?

And I'm still wondering how you reconcile your position that Goatman is a DAB page that should be the target of a redirect from [{GoatMan]] [sic] with WP:DIFFCAPS, which provides that:

When [hatnotes, etc.] are in place, small details are usually sufficient to distinguish topics, e.g. MAVEN vs. Maven; Airplane vs. Airplane!; Sea-Monkeys vs. SeaMonkey; The Wörld Is Yours vs. other topics listed at The World Is Yours.

142.160.89.97 (talk) 05:31, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

• Weak support for GoatMan in line with WP:SUBTITLE as cited above. Oppose GoatMan (book): if it needs to be disambiguated, the subtitle is the natural disambiguation. PamD 09:18, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Not primary topic, per other entires at Goatman. And per PamD, subtitle serves as WP:NATURAL and WP:RECOGNIZEable disambiguation.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:05, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@Amakuru: Not primary topic, per other entires at Goatman. Given that it is literally unique amongst the entries at Goatman in its capitalization, why do you not believe it to be the primary topic, bearing in mind WP:DIFFCAPS? 142.160.89.97 (talk) 18:27, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

"Goatman" vs "GoatMan" does not constitute a WP:RECOGNIZEable difference suitable for DIFFCAPS.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:12, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:NATURALDIS. --Gonnym (talk) 16:54, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

@Gonnym: Uhhh, can you explain why WP:NATURALDIS would be a reason to oppose? Because the proposal is, in fact, a natural disambiguation. 142.160.89.97 (talk) 18:27, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

You might be understanding the meaning of disambiguation in a wrong way which is why you think that. When two titles are the same you need to differentiate between them - Goatman and GoatMan are the same thing (as I previously stated in a few of your other move requests, I think WP:DIFFCAPS is garbage so I'm invoking WP:IAR, also commonsense and the rest of my previous explanation which you can read on one of the other responses to your requests). Since they are the same, they need to be disambiguated. WP:NATURALDIS says to use a title which is commonly used so as to not necessitate the use of something like "(book)" (which you have in one of your other requests). The current title does just that. Also, as a side note, I really don't see how WP:SUBTITLE adds anything to Wikipedia. --Gonnym (talk) 20:17, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. WP:DIFFCAPS is mostly junk, because the distinction between, for example, "Red Meat" and "Red meat" is completely unrecognizable to the vast majority of readers. It's a rule that exists to keep Wikipedians happy, at the expense of our readers. And in a large number of cases, when tested at RMs, invoking DIFFCAPS does not find consensus.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:39, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose cited guideline does not apply as disambiguation and long title are clearly beneficial to readers here, and in cases without (book) WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT works for short titles. This kind of move is truly a bad idea for books. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:28, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
• Support as proposed. A quick review of the sources show that the subtitle is not commonly used. Additionally, GoatMan is distinct from other Goatman topics per WP:SMALLDETAILS. It's very unlikely anyone would search for any of the other topics with a capitalized "M".--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:39, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.