Talk:GoldenEye 007 (1997 video game)

Release on Xbox Game Pass and Nintendo Switch Online services

@Cyberlink420: First to answer your call for providing sources, I did not cite them in my previous edit because according to MOS:LEADCITE there is by default no necessity to cite sources already cited in the body content (you can notice there are 0 references in the present lead section) - sources in the #Rerelease section, in my case. Let's see what reliable sources say?

• Ars Technica: As previously announced, the Switch version will be part of the awkwardly named Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack membership, which costs $50 per year. [...] Xbox One and Series S/X owners, meanwhile, will be able to enjoy Goldeneye 007 as part of an Xbox Game Pass subscription [...]
• The Verge: GoldenEye 007 is finally coming to Nintendo Switch and Xbox. Nintendo announced today that Rare is releasing GoldenEye 007 HD on Nintendo Switch and Xbox soon as a remaster of the legendary Nintendo 64 title that first launched in 1997. The remastered game on Xbox includes 4K resolution, smoother frame rates, and even split-screen local multiplayer. Rare says it will even arrive on Xbox Game Pass and Nintendo Switch Online [...]

I could go on, because all of them say one thing (that it released for the Xbox Game Pass through which it is available to Xbox One and Xbox Series X/S users) and do not say the other (that it released for Xbox One). It is factually inacurrate to state it released for (just) Xbox One, and I ask you to find reliable sources to back up your claim. And please link me that policy you're referring to. -Vipz (talk) 17:02, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, the game will be playable on Game Pass on XB1 and Series X/S, as indicated by the sources. However, no article has stated that it will only be playable through Game Pass. There has never been a game released for Game Pass that is not available for separate purchase, and there is nothing to indicate this will be an exception in any of the sources provided. (This is not uncommon. Games are frequently announced as "coming to Game Pass", and have consistently without exception been available for separate purchase on the same day.) Furthermore, the sources only state that the game is playable on both systems; nothing states that Series X/S is getting a native port as opposed to just running the XB1 version through Series X/S's backwards compatibility (The same way games like Rare Replay are available on Game Pass on both systems, but was only released on Xbox One). I will gladly eat crow if Friday rolls around and either of these things prove untrue, but your claims do not have adequate evidence to back them at this time. Also, per Template:Infobox video game, "This field includes dedicated ports, but not games in emulation or services." -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 17:15, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

@Cyberlink420: backwards compatibility is not emulation, these consoles were made to natively run games made for a previous system. Therefore it is a native port for XS X/S as much as for XO. The game is being released as a separate purchase on both consoles at the same time. Do I need to repeat? It is WP:OR and WP:SYNTH to portray technical background of the port as the platform the game released on. What's your argument for omitting Xbox Series X/S from the lead section? -Vipz (talk) 17:33, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm saying Switch shouldn't be in the infobox because it's an emulation for a service. Also, your understanding of backwards compatibility is flawed and incorrect. Just because a game runs on a newer system does not make it a native port. Zatch Bell! Mamodo Fury is not a Wii game just because it runs on a Wii. Yakuza 0 is not a PS5 game just because it runs on a PS5. And Goldeneye is not a Xbox Series X/S game just because it runs on Xbox Series X/S. You have continued to not provide sources that indicate the version on X/S is a native port, and mention of games running on a newer system via backwards compatibility does not belong in the lede or the infobox. Ask WP:VG if you don't believe me. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 17:44, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

@Cyberlink420: I don't think my "understanding of backwards compatibility is flawed and incorrect", backwards compatibility is factually not emulation. However, WP:VG/PLATFORMS does support excluding platforms that run through backwards-compatibility from the infobox, I am aware of that now. This guideline (not policy) however does not support omitting such from the lead section, and I am primarily complaining about the revert of that part of my edit. You're portraying a port intended for both consoles (at the same time, unlike these two analogies) as a release for only one of these consoles, completely omitting Xbox Series X/S (in spite of NSO being mentioned). -Vipz (talk) 17:54, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, because that's generally not done with backwards-compatible releases. Just because you can play it on both systems doesn't change the objective fact that it was specifically built for Xbox One. Killer Queen Black was playable on both systems at launch, but the lede only refers to it as an XB1 game. Same thing with Dragon Quest XI. And Dragon Quest Builders 2. And John Wick Hex. And plenty of others. Being playable through backwards compatibility, especially when that's the standard for all Xbox One games running on Xbox Series X/S, is not a notable detail worth commenting on in the lede. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 18:04, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

@Cyberlink420: What platform the game was built for (or natively runs on) – as opposed to the platforms it was intended for – is the non-notable detail here, if we're going by reliable sources. -Vipz (talk) 18:16, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

No, what's important is what system it is specifically built for. I can see you're not budging, so I'll be soliciting a third opinion to settle this dispute. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 18:21, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Having read through the discussion, this does seem like a fairly unique situation. It's difficult to state which system this is "specifically built for" given that it's playable on both systems on the same day. Technically I could believe that it's likely to have been written for the XBox One, and will run on the X/S through emulation of that system. In that case, by the letter of Wikipedia law, X/S shouldn't be listed. However, it's marginal because there's clearly no "original" system here. All sources list both systems as the "intended system". Furthermore, it's an odd situation because all these new versions are actually just running an emulation of the N64 original, but I suppose that's a moot point. Finally, there's no indication that this won't remain an Xbox Game Pass exclusive (for XBox platforms), but I don't know how Wikipedia would represent that if MS decided to do this more often. (The idea of it being released separately seems highly unlikely to me given the hoops that MS have gone to in order to make this event happen.) A bridge to cross later.

However, to conclude, I feel that (until it is proven conclusively that X/S is running an XBox One emulation) that ALL platforms should be listed. At the moment it is only speculation that this is an XBox One title running through emulation. And going by what the public is currently being told, this is just as much an XBox One title as it is X/S. So the onus is on a source being found proving otherwise, not the other way around. However, if it IS confirmed that it's running under XBox One emulation, it should follow the letter of Wikipedia law and Series X/S be removed. That's my opinion. (Personally it would make sense to me for it to be shortened to XBox One/Series X/S, but that probably breaks some other arcane Wikipedia rule that I'm unaware of.) Good luck! WikiMane11 (ThunderPeel) (talk) 23:44, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the insight! I think the smart play for right now is to leave the page as it is to not create extra work for ourselves, then update accordingly in a few hours when the game is released and we have all the information. Shouldn't be hard to find a reliable source that lays everything out; something like a Digital Foundry analysis from Eurogamer would be perfect. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 00:59, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Update: The game is out now, and viewing the file information indicates "ConsoleType" as "XboxOne" and "XboxGen9", indicating it is a Smart Delivery game that determines which version to load based on the player's system, as opposed to purely BC games like Rare Replay that are only listed as "XboxOne". While a citable source should still be obtained, I feel comfortable listing it as both systems now, assuming we don't exclude both because it is technically an emulated release. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 01:20, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Glad it was resolved to everyone's satsifaction. WikiMane11 (ThunderPeel) (talk) 13:03, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Speed running the Golden Age

There should be a small notation of speed running for this game - It literally began here with Goldeneye and bleed into early twitch movement many years later where people "stream" progress of respective games online - Goldeneye was a catalyst for this aspect of gaming which being James Bond was all about efficiency in completing an objective usually in a "target time" thus blooming the golden age of speed running - Even the gaming magazines in their day would put up target times for their respective readers to try and "surpass" to be listed in their magazine - For instance Nintendo Power magazine had Goldeneye programmers "best time" on the Facility stage in OOA setting at 1:25 which unlocked invincibility deeming one of the top "cheats" unlocked in Goldeneye - S.N 72.45.35.55 (talk) 03:04, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

"GoldenEye 007 (1997 video game" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect GoldenEye 007 (1997 video game has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 21 § GoldenEye 007 (1997 video game until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 20:52, 21 February 2024 (UTC)