Talk:Gongfu tea

fujian

in fujian they have many methods of making tea there is no "one" fujian tea ceremony, what i mean is the article fujian tea ceremony is actually the gongfu (kungfu) "skill" method of brewing tea that is practiced in fujian. the gongfu tea ceremonies not exactly the same for every region, but are similar in the following the teas can be any kind, as long as it is leaf tea not powdered tea, the methodology of gongfu tea ceremony or gongfu brewing methodology is to brew good tea and to enjoy the tea, and usually socially, with others and casual talking. --Sherdwen 04:32, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Although Fujian district are the major tea leaves producer in China, there is no Chinese articles related Fujian tea ceremony to "GongFu" tea. In fact "GongFu" tea ceremony are will known as Chao Shan GungFu tea ceremony "潮汕工夫茶", originate form Chao Shan district, GuangDong Province, China. It must be some misunderstanding since Gungfu tea ceremony are using Oolong tea produce from Fujian province. When Chao Shan GungFu tea ceremony is invented, Chao Shan district does not produce tea. --Sltan 15:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Important facts

• The water temperature is not set in stone, however without some sort of guideline to start with, many beginners are put off. People who think that certain type of teas must stick with certain temperature are people who stick to everything exactly like how it is laid out in a cook book. You can not tell them that they are wrong, but great chefs have their own interperatations to how a dish is cooked. Much like how "tea soup" should be made.
• The tools are open for interpenetration, but again for entry level it is advisable to follow a certain set methodology. Until more experience has been put under the belt.
• The idea of aroma cups is to aid the drinkers with appreciating the smell in a separate step, this allows the in-experienced tea drinkers to immediately appreciate the changes of aroma in different state. The comparison of smell often surprises entry level tea drinkers so it is a great tool if used properly.

--Sltan 15:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Terminology?

I don't believe the term "ceremony" is correct for kung fu cha itself (I don't ever recall it being referred to as a ceremony by family or friends or at tea houses). It's just a skilled way to brew tea to a particular standard, and not a ceremony. It is more often than not a casual affair with friends, family, business associates, etc. It *can* be part of a larger ceremony, but gong fu cha itself is not a ceremony. cf. tea ceremony at Chinese weddings on the Chinese tea culture page and the Japanese tea ceremony.

Henryxchung (talk) 14:28, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree. There simply has been too much cultural exploitation going on in both Mainland China and Taiwan to fake up a show category which originally has been in existence purely for utilitarian purposes. This has to be made right.

Kwanchungleung (talk) 02:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

It is often referred to as a "ceremony" by the commercial teahouses that cater to tourists who often go there in tour groups when visiting south eastern China. Of course that is a commercial transaction that doesn't necessarily reflect the origins of the practice but it is a part of how the ceremony is used today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.79.251.161 (talk) 08:08, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

So much of what is presented as traditional in China is orientalist self-caricature, invented out of whole cloth. I'd love to add some text talking about how the transformation of gong fu cha into a "ceremony" is a very recent phenomenon, and how it's changed to be more showy and formal, but I know of no texts that describe the history of these recent changes. If anybody knows of any, please comment in this section. Difference engine (talk) 00:34, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

I disagree slightly, I think the utilisation of the phrase "ceremony" is purely for the understanding of English speakers. It is not in and of itself a ceremony necessarily, however to call it such communicates the unarguable ceremonial quality to this method of tea preparation. It is very methodical and specific in what it requires to be done properly by practitioners, and the making of gong fu cha places emphasis on quiet, grace, and reflection (when one is on one's own), or friendship/camaraderie, respect, and mutual appreciation (when made for a friend or associate). It is not simply a convoluted method of making tea but also an ethos that is intrinsically bound to the making and enjoying of said tea. You are meant to be in the moment, and focus on nothing other than the making and drinking of the tea, and the appreciation of the company you are with as you are doing so. The appropriation and bastardization of Chinese culture, even by the Chinese, is a different issue. I don't believe it has any bearing on this choice of terminology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peraou (talk • contribs) 22:10, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

What you call unarguable is what the argument is about. We have here a perfect example of an invented tradition, where something that used to be an organic practice has been turned into something completely different in response to modernity. --diff (talk) 01:23, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

reference dao

Gongfu tea ceremony,there is not usually a (道 dao,tao)following the term. Yet gongfu tea is a part of "Chadao, Way of Tea"

• changed from

工夫茶道, Way of tea brewing with great skill

• changed to

工夫茶, tea brewing with great skill icetea (talk) 21:36, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

This is a misunderstanding of the Chinese character and the origin of the term 工夫茶. The term 功夫, same as that used in the martial arts, means skills. The term 工夫 means efforts, or labor, or hard work. When the term began in Qing Dynasty to apply in the tea making method popular in Southern Fujian and Northern Guangdong, the term 工夫 was used. It was because it took a lot of efforts to properly prepare tea in this approach. The efforts were needed because clean water, odorless energy for heating and the time and resources to access them were rare. I shall amend the article accordingly.

Kwanchungleung (talk) 02:46, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Added the "功" character in the introduction. icetea8 (talk) 15:42, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

I think it might be useful to make a note somewhere that in the Chaozhou/Shantou(Chaoshan) dialect, it's only ever referred to as 工夫茶, and not 功夫茶. In the Chaoshan dialect, 工 and 功 have different pronunciations, while in other dialects such as Mandarin and Cantonese, they are pronounced exactly the same (hence the confusion). However, I am unable to produce references for this fact (I just know it's always 工夫茶 because I'm a native speaker of Chaoshan). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.224.130.10 (talk) 22:06, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps since gong fu cha is a part of chadao, you ought to label it as 工夫茶 (茶道) to communicate the relatedness, yet separate nature of the ideas. Not a native speaker so I won't presume to change it myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peraou (talk • contribs) 22:16, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

References

Hard water

It's not at all obvious why hard water should be avoided, if soft water is no good, but bottled water is OK. Hard water has lots of dissolved minerals. It's a mineral water, as are many bottled waters. What makes bottled water OK and hard water not?

I suspect that "hard water" in this context may be a mistranslation, or a literal translation of an idiom that means something else in Chinese. Either way, it should be explicated. 192.35.35.34 (talk) 00:43, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Hard water should be avoided because it does not leach as well as soft water, leading to tasteless tea.90.192.145.74 (talk) 12:11, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Hard water usually has a high calcium content. Polyphenolic aroma compounds (especially tannins) in tea tightly bind calcium. In extreme situations, this makes the tea slightly cloudy and/or leads to the formation of an oily-looking film on top. Even if this is not the case, the binding to calcium makes these aroma compounds less perceptible; one does not need to be a tea connoisseur to notice the difference in taste between tea brewed with very hard and soft water. (Incidentally, this calcium binding works both ways, as tea is thought to lower the uptake of calcium from water. This can be important for people with osteoporosis.) OneAhead (talk) 21:02, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

rewriting this article

I have been putting some time to rewrite this article so it is of a better quality standard. However, I have covered only the intro, the origin and half of the tools and equipment sections. Will continue the re-writing when I have time. Pls talk to me if you have ideas about what I have put down and do not change my writing without discussion. Kwanchungleung (talk) 07:43, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd really like to see the term "ceremony" removed, as gongfu cha is really just a practice of brewing certain teas in a way meant to get the best from it. Concepts of "ceremony" are a modern invention to sell an experience to foreigners, and even chayi ("tea art," which is really more of what's described) is a recent invention. Many (including myself) feel that it also serves to promote orientalism. History (this article also addresses other comments on this talk page): http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/features.php?searchterm=029_kim.inc&issue=029

I'd also argue that I think that specific instructions would be outside the scope of an article like this. The practice is going to vary by the individual, the tea, the water, and so on; for every mention of a particular aspect or step mentioned on this talk page, I can think of at least one exception. If someone is interested in learning how to do it, then they can find plenty of webpages, videos, etc., but it will ultimately take much longer to learn. I would say that it's no more appropriate to provide instructions (rather than a general overview) than it would be to provide a recipe for a food dish. Things like water temp and hardness are not compulsory to the practice, but one could argue that experimenting for yourself is. I'd much rather see a general description of the practice, and perhaps the tools with a descriptor that the person brewing 'may use one or more of the following.' ABx009 (talk) 06:18, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

gong fu as a brewing method

Gong fu cha is also a method that people use to make tea in less formal settings. Overall gong fu is much less formal than chado. I don't think this article really reflects that. futurebird (talk) 21:06, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Neutrality

The article seemed at first reading to be written as an advertisement but I am finding it hard to pin down why. Also talk of tasting good and being good for the soul are culturally subjective and perhaps could be rewritten e.g. "Considered by 66% of Chinese people to be good for the soul [solid citation eg in anthropological journal]" I am at least definite that you must find a source if you are going to claim that this is the best way to brew tea. Regards CaptainLepton (talk) 17:05, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

The article doesn't claim that the tea will taste good or IS good for the soul. It says that what is ***desired*** is tea that tastes good and is good for the soul. This is true, as gong fu cha is not strictly a brewing method but also includes and ethos that promotes taking a peaceful moment to appreciate good tea, and to relax and live in the moment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peraou (talk • contribs) 22:23, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

"Ceremony"

Nothing about gongfu cha is ceremonial. Every step has a practical purpose, but if you're not accustomed to seeing it, I guess many of the actions can seem superfluous or ritualized.

Also, in the lede picture, why is that rock placed where it is along the back wall??? Hmmm....

This article seems like a case of virgins writing about sex. 24.51.217.118 (talk) 01:23, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Lacking content/What would count as an appropriate source?

This article unfortunately lacks a lot of important information regarding gongfu cha, such as the actual execution of the process. It also does not mention that much greater amounts of tea leaf are used for the same amount of water than what is used in other methods of brewing, nor is the importance of water chemistry and temperature elaborated on. There are also a few inaccuracies and half-truths spread about, such as water temperatures being given in rigorous intervals, wherein green tea is included, although it is usually not prepared in gongfu, and the term 'ceremony' being used, which other users have remarked upon as unfitting.

Please note that I have read the concerns of all users on the talk page and am not simply trying to be pedantic, but rather I wish to provide a more thorough version of this article.

I feel that the main issue with this article is the lack of any citable sources regarding most aspects of gongfu cha, owing to gongfu cha not being a singular, well-defined process. Rather, as pointed out by user ABx009, performing of gongfu cha varies between persons.

In light of this lack of appreciatable sources, what would be an accaptable substitute? A citizen of Chaozhou writing about their experience, like this? Or the writings of a Hong Kong native, who opened a tea shop, such as this? I feel tempted to at least add the information which I know to be true, due to it being common wisdom in the "tea world", to the article, however, I would like to try to avoid adding even more uncited text. Kathanir (talk) 15:09, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Missing tea to water ratio

There are instructions about what temperature to warm the water to, but there is no information regarding the amount of tea per given volume of water. How is anyone supposed to follow along? I'm confused. Atcold (talk) 22:48, 9 February 2021 (UTC)