Talk:Gottlob Berger

Latvian Army personnel

Per recent edit, please provide a reliable source for the claim that Himmler made all former Latvian Army officers and non-commissioned officers liable for service in the Waffen-SS. Only Estonian personnel are explicitly mentioned by Stein. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:19, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Michael Miller

Peacemaker67 What is wrong with Michael Miller's source? Your source and your edit does not state that the Ypres Assault Medal is an unofficial medal, what is wrong with me stating that? You provide no dates on several of your entries, is it better not to have dates when they're available? You provide no hyperlinks to several of your entries, is it better not to have them as you have done? Why is a 1984 source more acceptable over a 2006 source? Why have you removed Mike Miller's book as a reference to the missing dates etc? Are you saying he is not a reliable source and his books are not allowed to be used? By that logic are you dismissing the over 40 people listed in his book as reference back up? What is wrong with listing his decorations and awards in chronological order? Troy von Tempest (talk) 02:19, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

My point is that Kübler is a German source focussed on Berger's activities, and is probably preferable over a general text in English about many SS generals and their awards. Secondly, in adding Miller, you removed the McNab reference. Thirdly, they are in chronological order now, as far as I can see. If Miller disagrees with Kübler, or has more information, let's discuss it here and work out if and how to address that. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:50, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with using Miller as a source "per se", but if all of it is covered by Kübler, then there is no reason to add a second source; that is only needed if it takes two sources to cover what is stated or it is a point that could be contentious or is in relation to a major position being stated. Remember this article is rated FA and already well vetted, Troy. There is no reason to therefore change the listing order. As for possible slight differences in the English translation of an award title, that happens from time to time. Then the one already used and established on Wikipedia (that is RS cited) should be used. And given this is a FA article, I am sure this was done.

Lately, I must say in reviewing all the awards and medals listed, I believe there really is no reason to list every award he ever received. This given that some are very minor, but with that said, one can argue its for completeness sake. I have no strong feeling - one way or the other - so, I leave that to you gentlemen. Cheers, Kierzek (talk) 15:31, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

My views on this have changed over time, but I'm still for erring on the side of comprehensiveness by including them all. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:14, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

The image seems very large

It seems some editted the page and now the image say "Bob". Should it be editted again? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phecht7 (talk • contribs) 03:34, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:50, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Death reasons?

Are there any reasons why he died? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clrichey (talk • contribs) 15:26, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Landesbibliographie Baden-Württemberg doesn't say. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:59, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:52, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Honorifics?

It seems that Kierzek has informed me that honorific prefixes of military ranks are an inappropriate use of honorifics, hence his removal of those from certain pages, including an ill-informed mass edit by me. Hence, with this page as one of the exceptions I'd like to confirm this is as this case and thus ask if such examples of this like on this page should be removed.

SuperWIKI (talk) 13:32, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Where’d they get that from? I have over a dozen FAs with them in the infobox. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 13:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

You tell me. Seems this is already a noticeable issue as I have stated here. SuperWIKI (talk) 14:40, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Before going around making mass changes of any type, always check to see if it has been discussed and a consensus has formed. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:20, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

POW handling edit warring

Where we have different information about a particular matter, we present all significant perspectives and compare and contrast them, we don't just substitute the one we prefer for the the existing one. There is also an issue here of the weight that should be given to the sources. One source is specifically about POWs in Europe and the events towards the end of the war, the other is a biography of a VC recipient who was a POW in Colditz castle, the author of which is unlikely to have done the sort of research that the former did on the subject of what was ordered to be done with POWs. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:18, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

The author did an enormous amount of research, which you would know if you'd bothered to access the book. This includes personally visiting Colditz to access archived materials, travelling in person to the locations where prisoners were liberated, interviewing surviving prisoners and interviewing people at those sites. Did your author do this? It's a valid source that does not contradict any other material in the text and you have no right to revert it.Newzild (talk) 08:05, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

They are not "my' authors, and the material you added does contradict the material in the article. Nichol and Rennell say that they were unable to find anything but anecdotal evidence that Hitler had ordered the extermination of Allied POWs other than the fifty from Stalag Luft II in 1944 and of course, the Commando Order. It is Berger who claimed that he had been to Berlin and that Hitler had ordered him to do it, but given he then used that account in order to save his own skin, it has to be treated with extreme caution. That is why the wording in the article has been carefully calibrated not to give the impression that Hitler actually ordered their murder, because the authors that examined this very issue did not find anything other than anecdotal evidence for it, and they also concluded that Berger told plenty of other lies to save his own skin. Your source accepts this claim, but we can't have it as it is now, as that would be accepting that such an order was given, when we have a reliable source that has examined the situation of all Allied POWs at the end of the war and has found no actual evidence that the order was given. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:13, 27 April 2021 (UTC)