Talk:Grain

Requested move 16 September 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. The consensus is that this article is the primary topic for the term "grain". Jenks24 (talk) 17:13, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

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Food grain → Grain – The title "food grain" seems to be an half-baked attempt to make a WP:NATURAL disambiguation, and it's not so successful in my opinion. However, Grain (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) redirects here since 2013, and I'd say that this article is indeed WP:PRIMARY encyclopedic use of the term. In any case, even if you disagree with that assessment, then we should move Grain (disambiguation) to Grain -- the current setup is not viable. No such user (talk) 11:18, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

• Support, primary common name. Randy Kryn 12:55, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
• Propose move to corn – The common name for these crops as a collective is "corn", and has been for centuries. I see no need to use the obfuscating "grain". One drives by cornfields, not by "grain fields". Regardless, the present title is rubbish, so please eliminate it somehow. RGloucester — ☎ 13:32, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

  But to most modern English speakers (North America, Australia), "corn" means maize. Since we have successfully resisted multiple RM's of maize to corn, let's not overdo it, and let that particular horse please rest in eternal peace. No such user (talk) 14:05, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Do you pick cornflowers, or do you pick "grainflowers"? It is very simple. That natural designation is corn. RGloucester — ☎ 17:01, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

To most, a "cornfield" is a field of maize plants. Steel1943 (talk) 19:37, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Where I'm from, we pick bachelor's buttons, not cornflowers. Plantdrew (talk) 00:26, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

In the USA, corn specifically means maize and maize only. It is not the generic word that grain is. Definitely too much confusion on that one. Montanabw^(talk) 23:06, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Here in England a cornfield is a field of any cereal crop. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:21, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

• Support moving food grain to corn, as it will spur editors to finally move maize to the proper title of corn instead. In case that is seen as disingenuous, yes, I support moving food grain to just grain. The current title is a needless redundancy. 209.211.131.181 (talk) 16:38, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

• No, changing the situation of Corn via this move request that is neither on Talk:Maize nor Talk:Corn (disambiguation) is deceiving to readers due to this discussion's improper advertisement, and will immediately result in a WP:SURPRISE-ing situation. Steel1943 (talk) 19:41, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

• Support proposed move, strong oppose move to Corn. I understand how the "corn" move is a WP:WORLDWIDE suggestion, but we shouldn't be changing the status quo of the current situation of "corn" without a broader consensus elsewhere. My recommendation is to nominate Corn for WP:RFD to see if it should be retargetted to Food grain or where it moves. In fact, I'd rather see Corn (disambiguation) move to Corn than see "corn" represent any other specific subject per WP:WORLDWIDE, though I think "corn" redirecting to "maize" is the preferable situation. Steel1943 (talk) 19:32, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
• Support move as proposed, strongly oppose moving to corn. older ≠ wiser 00:56, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
• Support proposed move, strong oppose move to Corn. The latter does not work for English speakers of North America. For American and Canadian average WP users, it would seem silly and perverse. As for fighting to force the front-of-mind sense of corn to include all grains, that ship already sailed, 2 centuries ago, with regard to North American English. — ¾-10 01:30, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
• Strong oppose I do not think this is the primary topic. Grain is frequently discussed in materials science, and it is not this topic, rather it is a feature of materials, with grain size, granularity, grain boundaries, etc. And in woodworking. The problem with this article's title can be solved with grain (food). Grain (disambiguation) should be moved to Grain -- 70.51.202.113 (talk) 05:42, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
• Here in England "corn" still means the seeds from any cereal crop. The USA usage of "corn" for specifically maize, started as a short form for "Indian corn", because European settlers found Amerindians growing maize. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:36, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose I believe common usage of grain includes both food (rice, wheat, maize, barley, etc.) and material science (particle, crystalline structure, unit of mass, etc.); and disambiguation is a more appropriate initial routing for grain. The older English use of corn is similarly ambiguous, with early gunpowder manufacture including corning mills to break the dried solid cake of mixed and wetted powdered ingredients into smaller pieces for screening into what might be called grains of gunpowder (although present US use of that phrase might imply mass of gunpowder rather than number of particles.) Thewellman (talk) 12:57, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

  @Thewellman: But let us take the position of an average reader: 'edible seed' is the original (wikt:grain < lat. granum 'seed') and the only unadored meaning of grain plausible; by typing "grain", arriving at this page would hardly be a surprise, would it? Besides, I find it unlikely that many would arrive at this article by searching -- following a wikilink would be a much more likely method, and we should present the reader with the most sensible title available. There are many derived meanings of grain indeed, but all of them would be only WP:PTM in any sensible nomenclature. No such user (talk) 17:53, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

  While I concur use of the term to describe small particles was likely derived from cereal seeds, the lead paragraph (or disambiguation link) of the food article would require greater volumetric emphasis on the single seed (rather than the broad food group) to clarify common US expressions like grain of sand, grain of salt, or grain of truth. The meaning of against the grain might remain quite baffling despite such change. Thewellman (talk) 19:33, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• Support: Particularly as grain is now a redirect. Should be WP:PRIMARY and Grain (disambiguation) covers the rest. My second choice would be for grain to be the dab. Oppose move to "corn." I have no way to assess whether "maize" or "corn" is the more common word for English speakers worldwide, but it clearly is often enough used interchangeably that "corn" as a generic word for "grain" would create more drama than is useful. Montanabw^(talk) 23:06, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
• Support, since grain redirects here already. Srnec (talk) 15:29, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
• Support moving Food grain → Grain. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:44, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Content suggestion regarding history

Something that might be appropriate would be a table giving the type of grain, an estimation of when domesticated, and the geographic origin of such. For example: Maize (corn), 9 thousand years ago, Central America.73.110.37.12 (talk) 21:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

May contain original research

I’ve noticed that this article may contain original research, and here’s why. A) it implies that pseudocereals, pulses, and oil seeds are grains, yet I couldn’t find any source of information, outside Wikipedia confirming that. B) I see a distinction between warm season and cool season cereals, but then again I see no source of information, outside Wikipedia confirming that.

Anyway please keep me informed of any feedback. (Heegoop) 15:46, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Grain as a potential cause of health problems

Many new theories suggest grain or elements of grain may be harmful to health, including but not limited to, gluten, omega-6, starch, and anti-nutrients. While it is not currently common medical consensus, it may still be noteworthy enough to compile for future reference. Altanner1991 (talk) 19:25, 4 June 2022 (UTC)