Talk:Grand Theft Auto IV/Archive 3

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Archived this as there were many discussions which were not required any more John Hayes 16:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Not a Russian Accent!

The narrator's accent is clearly Middle Eastern, not Russian. IGN's editors need to get a freakin clue.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.68.172.93 (talk) 05:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

I think that there should not be any speculation on the accent of the narrator, because no one can accurately say where the accent is from. 203.129.56.237 05:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Let's just wait for more information to come out to clarify his accent. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 06:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

he appears and sounds like a Russian not Arab Arab people are have a much darker skin color while the Russian guy has a just right Russian skin color geez havent anyone seen a REAL Russian before? I bealve you need to get a clue!--Butterrum 10:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Take a listen to how he says 'complicated' and 'smuggling'. Definitely East-European (maybe not Russian, I don't go to Eastern Europe too often :) (81.153.74.118 12:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC))

The article should probably just say "foreign" (as in foreign to the USA) until it's established where he's from. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 13:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

it sounds Russian to me ive heard Russians and seen one it ant Arab or East Europe even though i dont uderstand what you mean by East Europe but Bill your right we should just keep it Forgien for now till we know... oh Smuggleing and selling people (human trafficking) is quite comin in Russia,Mexico, Japan but hes not Asain nor Latino so hes got to be Russian hes dressed like a Russian ive seen a Russian dress like that in the movies--Butterrum 13:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Eastern Europe consists of a lot of former Soviet countries (ie they were one part of Russia) that have similar sounding accents to unaccustomed ears - hence the uncertainty as to the character's exact country of origin. I think "foreign" is slightly POV too, sort of an "us and them" mentality, but I suppose it will do until something better is written. Yeanold Viskersenn 14:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Until the character says, "Thank you, come again," or ,"Jihad, Jihad, Jihad," or perhaps, "Praise be Allah," it'd be a bit hard to discern him in to an Arab accent. To some people ( mostly people lacking ears - literally ) Russian accents might sound Arabian. But if the monologue is of the man we think it is, he's obviously not Arabian. However, this is all more or less point of view, and until the game is released or R* has a press conference about it, we probably won't be able to say for sure. 12.107.246.130 22:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I say Eastern European. And he probably won't say "Jihad, Jihad, Jihad". If he did, New York City would become New Baghdad City. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{talk • contribs}} 01:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Unless the game is going to be released only in the US, it is incorrect to say he has a "foreign" accent. Why say anything at all if you can't agree? --70.143.52.3 02:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I added the "foreign" part to try and remove any speculation about eastern European or Russian accents, it wasn't great and the foreign part was about how the accent is not from America yet it is set in Mexico. I've changed it to "non-American", which is definitely correct yet vague, but I believe this information is notable enough to be included despite the difficulty in describing it without speculating. Hopefully the Game Informer article coming soon will give us more information that can be sourced. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 02:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

i love your style Bill real smooth hopefly the magazine will tell ask our question when dose it come out?....what the hell is a JIDAH? and why whould a guy that i think has a Russian accent be saying Jidah and ALLAH all the time R* not making GTA into Grand Theft Auto: Allah or Jidah City this Liberty City kid not some bombing place R8 dilikes use of terriost and thats why they removed the mid eastern guys from ped cheats--Butterrum 10:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Who said "Jidah"? --70.143.52.3 12:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

lulz butterrum, he was saying that unless the character was saying "Jihad" (fix'd btw) etc, then he would most likely not be shown as an Arab. tytyty repeating his point Wanka 16:26, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow, so because they're Arab, they have to say Jihad? You people are the biggest racists I've seen on Wikipedia.Xihix 16:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Although what they said was about as dumb, that's not exactly what they said. (and remember this is a GTA game so it will be full of stereotypes) --70.142.52.56 00:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that he's from the Caucasus region, which used to be part of the Soviet Union... possibly an Armenian. -- Davo88 17:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. We try. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{talk • contribs}} 17:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

again what dose Jidah mean i think hes again RUSSIAN!!!!!!!!--Butterrum 01:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Again you tell me. Nobody said Jidah. --70.142.52.56 02:52, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Definitely not Russian or Eastern European. Do you have any idea what an actual Russian looks like other than seeing how they dress "in the movies?" Russians are Slavic people, and most ethnic Russians have pale skin, light hair and blue or green eyes. I am betting each of you who is claiming the character is Russian a million bucks that he will not be from Russia or any other Soviet Republic, or anywhere from Eastern Europe for that matter. The whole Russian thing was started by IGN who are probably eating their words by now. The way he pronounced the word "people" is pretty much how Arabs say it. Go dig out an archived recording of Yasser Arafat and compare.

You seem to be betting that R* would rather be technically accurate than copy a characature(sic) of Russians seen "in the movies". --70.142.52.56 02:57, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that he's an Arab. I have some knowledge of Arabic, and the language doesn't have the letter "th" in it. If you pay attention to the trailer, you'd notice that he's unable to pronounce the word "things". Instead, he says "tings". If he was an Arab, he wouldn't have trouble. I don't know about Russian, but the Armenian language doesn't have the letter "th"... if you guys get what I'm saying... -- Davo88 03:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Just LOVIN' the unsourcable discussion, guys. Please continue. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 03:09, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Just take a look at the Wikipedia articles about those languages. -- Davo88 03:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Look, regardless of whether it's true or not, if it's unsourcable, then it's still original research. I realize that sounds stupid; crap, it probably sounds very stupid, but "them's the rules," as Yeanold put it. If you don't have any source from Rockstar on the subject, then discussing it ain't gonna help. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 03:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I know, this is speculation, if anything. -- Davo88 04:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

...which doesn't belong on this talk page, unfortunately. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 04:10, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually it doesn't have to use Rockstar as the source, depending on what the information is and how it's worded. The article doesn't have to only talk about what's actually in the game, but what's known/assumed/claimed by others. That's what the "unreleased game" template is for at the top of the page. That doesn't mean we should be arguing over unsourced speculation, but I think IGN is a reliable source for a videogame. (forgive me for not having read the entire guide on reliable sources) --70.142.52.56 08:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

"I think that there should not be any speculation on the accent of the narrator, because no one can accurately say where the accent is from." -203.129.56.237. that about sums it up 121.127.192.121 11:03, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think adding something like "IGN speculates that his accent is Russian," and other opinion's expressed in their article is actually adding anything worthwhile. At the moment every gaming website and most people here are trying to decide on what accent it is. Eurogamer says "the main character appears to be of eastern European origin, Russian perhaps." By the time all the notable views on where the accent is from are added to the article there'd be a whole section on it, and as soon as Rockstar reveal where it's from the section would be deleted. Adding speculation by qualified sources, yet sources that don't have any hard evidence would not improve the article for someone who wants to know facts about GTA IV. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 11:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Well whether the information is worthwhile is certainly debatable here. What sources we choose to use is at our discretion too. I doubt the section would grow huge with people adding extra quotes, since there are really only two options. I agree though that it's dumb arguing about the guy's accent here. --64.149.47.0 03:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Usually I'm for using any source that's reliable (as Wikipedia policy says), but in this case as most sources are speculating then in my opinion there's more of a need to use a source much closer to the subject matter. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 16:27, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

you know Bill has a point...and yes ive seen a Russian movie hell i have alot of them i seen a movie where a Russian human trafficked with the Mexicans and Asia ive seen a movie where Americans were Human trafficked and were killed for cash i bet you my name that he is Russian (sorry Bill just fighting back with people)--208.125.114.250 14:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I am Russian and have lived in 4 different former Soviet republics, including the Caucasus, and the character's accent doesn't even sound close to how people from the region speak. In fact, I've never met a person from Russia or Eastern Europe who spoke like that. IGN is an authority on videogames, not on accents. Get a linguist's opinion on this, not some guy's who watched Rocky or The Red Heat.

I agree, we shouldnt trust movie accents on this. And by the way, why dont we just ask a Russian or Arab native speaker? And what do the Russian pages actually say on this matter? ( I cant verify, I dont speak Russian. All I can say he is definitely notDutch. ;)). - Redmess 16:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The Russian Wikipedia says Eastern European, but you can't use Wikipedia as a source and it's unsourced there too. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 16:23, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Bill is right the Russian might be as confused as us or some guy just put it on there who knows i dont --69.205.61.185 16:51, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Can we PLEASE not refer to it as a "non american accent" like its something amazing that he's a non american....how bout just foreign? Gregg414

Who said that? ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 05:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Haha, I guess you'll get people to argue about anything on Wikipedia. The article used to say he had a foreign accent and I'm the one who complained that it should be changed to non-American. --70.128.121.136 07:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Gregg, the rationale for it being called "non-American" is explained above, "foreign" was also considered and even in the article for a while. Like I said, read up a bit to see why it was changed to "non-American". ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 13:25, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Ooooooh, that's who said that. Dang...I forgot. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 17:07, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Surely this cannot be "non-American" either, how do you define an American accent? An American of white European background? An American of Native American background? Is not someone from an Arab background (for the sake of argument) who has American nationality American? I don't believe the accent can be defined at all. John Hayes 10:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Ugh, hard to argue with that. (although there are several typical native-born American accents) But you really did need to provide an alternative, since we actually do need to define those sorts of things here. Anyway, with the new information we don't need to mention his accent anymore. --70.128.125.36 15:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I realise that is pedantic, but this is an encylopedia after all, anyway as you say it has been removed nowJohn Hayes 11:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we just put it as an 'Eastern' accent? Axe995 01:32, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I feel we should just let it be until a source comes. Really the best thing to do. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 01:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

quite, once we know the nationality it will be irrelevant anywayJohn Hayes 11:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I have sourced information. His character's name is Niko Bellic. That sounds slavic so it is doubtful he is middle eastern. Game informer also states his home is in Eastern Europe. He also has a cousin named Roman. So it is official he is an eastern european slav. 70.59.72.101 15:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

What is your source? "sounds like slavic" won't do I'm afraid. If you have an official source, then it's official he's a slav. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 15:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I can change my name to Niko Bellic and move to Riga. That doesn't make me slavic John Hayes 14:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. That's OR, so it shouldn't be added. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 21:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

• • You are all close, but incorrect. His accent and look is definatively Armenian... one of the Caucases near Russia. And this is coming from a linguist.*********** Sassytigre 23:20, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Original research...'nuff said. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 01:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, and also (though this breaks the rules on discussing the article only) two words for you Sassytigre, "artistic licence" John Hayes 09:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course it is. It is something I know about, but I am not going to waste my time publishing a paper on why a character from GTA IV can be said to have an Armenian accent. If you REALLY want it, however, I can next present an excerpt on the various distinguishable Slavic morphemes and the phonetic discriptions...

the Surname BELLIC or BELIC is a South Slavic Name, it has nothing to do with the Caucus Region, or Eastern Europe at ALL. The Reason why the Accent Might sound a bit Arab is because maybe the Character is From Bosnia, Where there is a Large Muslim Population.

PLEASE stop talking about his accent; NO ONE has any sources, yet, clarifying his accent, so it doensn't need to be discussed. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 06:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

We have long since removed the accent from the article, so I think we should now delete this section, as it is not useful to the article John Hayes 09:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

At the next possible time the talk page should be archived. I dont think it should be deleted completely because it's a good conversation to reference if the same issue arises again. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 12:21, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

How do you archive a talk page? 58.185.104.72 08:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

• It has been confirmed that he is not Russian. Time to archive this page... .:Alex:. 15:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Liberty City- definitely

The ferry terminal is disused and rundown. As anyone who played GTA:LCS will tell you, the ferry terminal was closed down and by 2001 was replaced by the porter tunnel. 159.134.48.148 10:19, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

yeah but GTA4 takes place in 2007 and the porter tunel is moved somewhere else and the Ferry Service was put in to ether make the Ferrys avelible again so you can take a crouse to Ellis Island besides swiming and taking a boat there--Butterrum 10:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no evidence it takes place in 2007, or for anything else that you have said there. Also in regards to the original point a ferry terminal being in both cities is not evidence that it is the same city.John Hayes 11:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Name of the Guy

In the german Wiki they say that the guy from the trailer looks like "Jerkov", the leader of the russian mafia in gta 2. there is a comparison: [1](click at fatos on the left) (and they trade in body parts) --89.56.57.215 22:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

maybe the guy is claude 203.129.58.171 02:54, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

This is all unsourcable speculation, outside of the fact that this character and Claude look completely different. Discussions like this don't help anything, which is asserted by the template at the very top of the page. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 03:04, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

who are you to say that him and claude look different? 203.129.40.156 17:49, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Uhhh, because I have eyes??? Just look at them, man. They clearly look different: one obvious one is the hairstyle and the beard, which is different from Claude's; Claude has smaller eyes that this guy and has had a consistent clothing style in both of his game appearances, which is a black jacket and beige cargo-like pants, which is, once again, different from this character. One that could be seen as obvious is the fact that this character, more than likely, can talk, and with the support of storyline consistency, we can make an educated assumption that Claude still can't, or won't, talk. Either way, this is all speculation and needs to discontinue. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 18:30, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

But he really looks like Jerkov from GTA2 look at this [2] --89.61.181.123 22:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Regardless, this is still speculation. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 22:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

This speculative research could lead onto sourcable information which would be helpful tot his article. I am not familier with GTA2 though, so I can't say if it is possible or not JayKeaton 10:28, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Speculation may result in a source if it gives someone the idea to hunt down a source, but this is pure speculation. Looking at GTA to see if they look similar cannot result in a source that way. At the moment, because of all the speculation from gamers, forums and even some magazines, the sources for content should either be Rockstar directly or a magazine with information direct from Rockstar (e.g. Game Informer's may edition). You don't need to be familiar with GTA2 to be able to add the information if it's true and sourced, because the source will contain all the information you need. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 10:58, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Um, the second anonymous user wasn't really speculating. He was obviously screwing with you guys with a stupid comment to get a stupid response. --64.149.33.216 16:59, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I have no trouble believing that he could have possibly been being serious, considering some of the stupid crap I've found on Wikipedia. With some of the stuff I've seen, that guy could still have been making a serious statement. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 18:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

omg your right Jerkov looks just like the Russian guy from GTA4 this chould be a sign that R* is bring back old faces (Claude Speed GTA2 Claude GTA3)--69.205.61.185 04:06, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Please bring up sourcable information, or this discussion is subject to removal. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 04:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I did don't be so mean and pushy because people are trying to bring up stuff like clues.--69.205.61.185 06:14, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't being mean or pushy; you also should be worried more about being not getting blocked...if you know what I mean, and I'm sure you do. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 05:52, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

No not really?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.61.185 (talk)

oh yeah klyptyzm you really are an old hand teach me your wise wisdom - all hail king klyptzm, defender of the weak, making sure that no one says anything "unsourcable". 203.129.59.20 10:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Heh heh, I like that title; I always did fashion myself a defender from unsourcabilicality. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 17:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

More like Klyptzm the bully! OH look at me im Klyptzm I think im cool because i make fun of this kids spelling! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.125.114.250 (talk)

Actually, I'm Klptyzm. You're Butterrum. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 04:03, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

It is Niko Bellic 70.59.72.101 15:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, uhhh, we've known that for about a month now.... ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 16:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Trailer treats

i wanted to know more about GTA 4 so i checked everywhere and found onr site that showed detail on whats in the trailer and stuff its this link it details everything seen and pics http://planetgrandtheftauto.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Articles.Detail&id=90&game=11--69.205.61.185 06:21, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Main character's resemblance

Seeing how I added this only to see it arbitrarily removed ten minutes later, I figured that I'd mention it here rather than add it back in and see it arbitrarily removed again. There has been a lot of speculation since the trailer was released that the character shown is based off of Vladimir Mashkov's character in 2001's Behind Enemy Lines. The first publication to comment on this was PSX Extreme, and Kotaku in turn mentioned it.

See here - I think that this is more than worthy of a mention somewhere in the existing format of the article. --Warrior-Poet 06:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

It's nothing but speculation from both the sites (PSX Etreme and Kotaku). Both are just saying how they've noticed similarities and neither have any hard evidence. Including it in the article would add nothing to it. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

i do see how the Russian main charater looks like Vladimir abd is looks aas if its the charater is based off of him and Jerkov looks just like the Russian main charater you all do know who Jerkov is right hes the Russian Mafia Don notice how Claude Speed from GTA3 pops up and them Jerkov from GTA2 looks just like the Russian guy from GTA4 and he poped up then people were talking about him all of a sudden chould it be a sign that the GTA2 charaters are returning (Claude Speed in GTA2 and GTA3 Jerkov GTA2 probly the Russian guy in GTA4) somthing tells me the main charater in GTA4 is gonna start somthing big--69.205.61.185 16:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

If you don't have any credible, official sources, then please don't try to make such claims. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 05:53, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

It probably is Jerkov but since there is no source to prove it then like BishopTutu said we can't add anything about it to the article yet. --70.128.121.136 07:24, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

True...I am sorry for making youi mad Klyptzm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.61.185 (talk)

Besides my anger what dose my spelling have to do with the main charater? Huh? tell me and answer my question!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.125.114.250 (talk)

You didn't make me mad. I'm just telling you. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 23:40, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't really care who it is (yet), but could 69.205.61.185 please learn about spelling, grammar and punctuation please (particularly full stops). Harveymuso 03:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

FOR THE LAST TIME PLEASE DON'T MAKE FUN OF HOW I SPELL!! Ok? I'm starting to get mad at everyone who makes fun of my spelling! Well look at you Harveymuso your a sped!...Wow uhh i'm sorry I just got so mad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.125.114.250 (talk)

Perhaps you've been misunderstanding. Nobody is making fun of you. (although I can only speak for myself) We only want you to correct your behavior so we can work together more easily. --70.142.41.76 04:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Be quiet PLEASE I can type however I choose to ok! Your the ones making fun of me!! Don't haide it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.61.185 (talk)

True, and other editors can respond accordingly; if you don't type like a normal human being, they you won't be helped like one. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 21:10, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I feel treated differnt! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.61.185 (talk)

No one is picking on you; just spell correctly, man. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 01:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Lier I don't bleave you! Go ahead and make fun of me more come to me! You wanna play games ok! I'll play games!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.61.185 (talk)

....I grow tired of this childishness. Let's just talk about the article, if you don't wish to reason. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 03:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

69.205.61.185, please sign your posts by pressing the signature button or by typing four tildes (~~~~). ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 02:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

No you made fun of me so NO! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.125.114.250 (talk)

I didn't make fun of you ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 16:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous user please read WP:NOT#BATTLEGROUND John Hayes 14:05, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

He's not going to continue arguing in broken English? The horror! Er, sorry. 12.107.246.99 02:50, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I whould not make fun of anyone if I were you, also I talk in broken english are you gonna make fun of me?! That is called Personal attack lets stop it!--Manny Ribera 15:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Uhhh, you DO realize you've basically admitted to being a sockpuppet, right? ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 16:39, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

High-Resolution pictures

What happened to the high-res pics that used to be linked from the smaller pictures on the article? Now the "Times Square" screenshot says "No higher resolution available." I think it's pretty obvious in an article on a "next-gen" game like this (which runs in 720p) that high resolution screen grabs are important. --70.128.121.136 07:31, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes high resolution shots would be good, but the problem is with fair use. If an image is too large then it will fail the fair use criteria that Wikipedia policy requires we adhere to. The images are still available on the web and the trailer's available on the links so not is all lost for the reader. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 13:19, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Rating

I've noticed that on the Amazon UK search results page for GTA 4, it says that the PEGI Rating is 18+, on the product pages it says the BBFC rating is 18. On each of the websites for these companies however they don't list the game details. This could mean that the ratings will be out soon, they've only released the ratings to retailers, or Amazon's making an assumption (I'm not sure if they're allowed to do that). As it's not on the official sites, I don't think it should be in the article yet, but hopefully the ratings will be released officially soon so they can be added. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 01:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, we should probably keep an eye out for it; I do feel that maybe Amazon got their info from a source, though. I don't think they just made a random assumption with no basis. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 01:48, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Does rating differ between country, by chance? I mean, I assume it's determined by the morality of each individual country. Assuming the ESRB isn't universal. >_> 12.107.246.51 03:39, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it probably is an assumption based on the previous games - as the BBFC etc can't really give a rating to a game that is still in the development stages. Yeanold Viskersenn 09:41, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Based on common sense, it will get an ESRB Rating of M for Mature, just like the last few. —cmsJustin <;;font size="1">(talk|contribs) 23:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Jack Thompson too long

The section on Thompson reads like a newspaper article; it has far to many details for Wikipedia. I would like to shorten it to the following:

"American anti-obscenity activist Jack Thompson has stated he will take various measures to prevent the sale of the game to minors. Thompson's campaign seems to be solely focused on the Xbox 360 release of Grand Theft Auto 4, making no mention of the PS3 version at all.[12]

On 16 March 2007, Take Two Interactive filed a lawsuit against Thompson in attempt to block him from trying to declare the games a public nuisance.[13]"

Any objections?162.119.232.106 15:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

That sounds fine to me. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 16:14, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Fine by me. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 17:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I've made the update.Ryanpm4545 22:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Just get that fool Jack off this page, keep him on the gta series page but he doesnt need to be on every god dam game The Ravager 22:51, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Stop censoring us, Kleptozmyzm!!! comment stealer! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.142.57.222 (talk) 00:54, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

...Please tell me this is a joke. Forgive me, if it is. I'm dealing with a lot of bullshit right now, so I'm a bit on edge.... ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 01:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok ok Im just kidding you're not a comment stealer I retract my statement. I forgive you, but just get this damn fool off the page! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.142.57.222 (talk) 17:56, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

Game Informer leaked scans

It's been leaked and information, such as the name, has started to get inserted to the article. I will try and hunt down the policy for using leaked magazine articles as sources. If anyone knows it, please post it here. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 15:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

The magazine has not been leaked. Someone has got it via subscription earier than everyone else. Darkchicken101 16:41, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for the clarification ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 16:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - I think now that it is available to the general public (albeit subscribers), then it can be used as a valid source. There seems to be a hella lot of new info in there too! Yeanold Viskersenn 17:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Niko Bellic???????????

Bold textWhere did you hear that the name of the main character of Gta IV will be Niko Bellic???? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mammonak (talk • contribs) 16:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

Game Informer confirmed it: http://www.gta4.net/news/3857/game-informer-reaches-subscribers/ —cmsJustin (talk|contribs) 16:10, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

This is a HOAX the source is coming from a fan site...And its not MAY it's clearly a fake! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.61.185 (talk)

Yes, this is a fan site, but the information comes from a valid source. As far as the article is concerned, a source should come directly from GameInformer, or something more credible, if possible. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 03:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm waiting for the magizine to come out in May because i bleave it is a huge rumor! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.61.185 (talk)

"The main character is NOT Nikko Bellic, and there ARE aircraft in the game!" Got that from here: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=933037&topic=34677362 as it seems, there is a part about estonia. Yoosq 13:27, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

That may very well be true, but until there is a reliable source (and a friend of someone posting on a forum is not) we can't use it. John Hayes 14:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm confident that person was lying anyway; anyone can jump up and say "oooo, I got this from an inside source" and all that jive; let's just wait for a source. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 04:30, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

For that time, can you please add {fact}, or {hoax} to the part, where Belic is mentioned? I'm not able, and no, I don't want to create an account and log in. Thanks.

I don't see why. Unless R* and GameInformer are thought to be pulling a hoax. --70.142.42.81 00:58, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Weapons list?

I don't feel a weapons list should be integrated into the article. Soon, it could quickly develop into a laundry list. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 00:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean that you think, when the game is out, that we shouldn't add a list of weapons? Because I agree and disagree. I think it should be done maturely, not like a twelve-year-old group of boys fantasizing about weapons, but more just the names of the weapons used. I'd like to know what weapons will be used -- I won't have the game until it comes out on PC, whenever it does -- because, well, for one, I just like to know that kind of miscellaneous trivia. But you know, I'm just the kind of person who likes to read anything he can get his hands on over interesting things, so I don't know if it should be in an encyclopedia, and all. 12.107.246.82 03:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I understand where your coming from and I agree with you, but, as far as Wikipedia is concerned, would the weapons list really be necessary? WP:EMBED and WP:LISTS support me on this. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 04:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe (but i'm not 100%) there is an article on weapons used in the entire GTA world, so once the game does come out, if it was to be added anywhere, it would be there John Hayes 13:14, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

There isn't. And if there was, it would surely be deleted under the WP:NOT policy. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 15:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

You're quite right, I just thought I remembered seeing one. Either way this article wouldn't be the place for it John Hayes 15:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The weapons should only be mentioned here, and whether or not they differ substantially from previous games. For example, "Throughout the course of the game the player is given access to a wide variety of weaponry. These include pistols like the Desert Eagle, assault rifles such as the AK-47, and assorted tools like chainsaws and flamethrowers that can be used to cause general havoc and mayhem around the city. Notable additions to the weapon lineup in this incarnation of GTA include ..." --70.142.54.103 14:54, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Roman

The Game Informer article mentioned Niko's cousin, Roman. Should I add some info about him? --Jimbo Herndan 01:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Already been added from what I see. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 01:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Euphoria added to GTA IV

Y'all know that neat little thing Lucasarts got their hands on, Euphoria? The engine that lets you do things like realistically break stuff like rock, wood, etc. Well, it was recently announced that GTA IV will be using this feature. Methinks this is relevant enough to be added. Unless of course it turns out to be a false rumor, in which case, disregard this comment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.49.43.98 (talk) 06:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

Where did you get this info? ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 06:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Euphoria is being used in GTAIV. And it's for dynamic animation of people, not materials. —cmsJustin (talk|contribs) 16:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, well, I found this site, not sure if it's where the whole idea started, http://www.gta4.net/news/single.php?id=3828 , but from what I gather it seems Rockstar and naturalmotion partnered up, and it was indicated Euphoria would be used in Rockstar products. As they are confirmed to be working with Rockstar North, the specific folks behind GTA, I can see why people would get the idea that we'll see Euphoria on GTA IV. Quite frankly, it seems to be a safe bet. However, it is not fact, and I do know that Wikipedia is all about cold hard facts. So, if this is ever added to the article, it'd be as speculation, along with the facts about the partnership.

truth or rumor

I searched everywhere for info on GTA:IV and only found one and it's a FANSITE! I serched the GameInformer website for any clues and it states that the magizine people said they read is coming soon. I don't understand where you guys are geting your info and I also checked the old G search and found 2 things a FanSite and wikipedia again I have no clue how you guys are geting these info and people that say they got the magazine early is ether lieing or somthing else! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.125.114.250 (talk) 15:06, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

PC

Has anyone confirmed if they're going to release it on PC? Because I think that they will - but have they confirmed it? - User:Jbeckwith

Not yet. They have been no single confirmation from rockstar. --SkyWalker 07:24, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

This discussing the subject not the article. Delete? John Hayes 13:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

No, if someone has here information on the platforms then it will be added to the article. --14:47, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but he was asking about the game itself, rather than asking about the article John Hayes 15:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Lets argue about whether or not this is an argument. —cmsJustin (talk|contribs) 15:44, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

;-) John Hayes 16:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Any news on wether this will get a PC release? PMA 13:33, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

No! As soon as someone finds out the article will be updated. ^_^ --70.142.42.81

Will it be out for PC also? I think it worth a mention, if not. Not to say if yes! :) - Bl

If it's not mentioned yet, I think it's worth mentioning that it most likely will come out on PC, but that R* hasn't officially announced it. Economically, it's a smart move, so it seems likely -- but until they say so it can't be cited and proved. At the least, a sentence mentioning something like "R* has not yet said if IV will be included on the PC or if it will remain console-exclusive," seems appropriate to me. 12.107.247.226 23:54, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, either way, it can't be mentioned until Rockstar announces it. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 01:24, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

You can be positive it will come to PC in some capacity (legitimate or otherwise), usually a few months after console launch for exclusivity on launch and additional optimization for PC. PC players can be relied on to buy it when it comes out later as they're generally in for the long haul on a genre and aren't going to platform hop, whereas console players often jump to whatever is hot at the moment. That's simply modern video game marketing, no offense to anyone. DavimusK 04:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Regardless or whether or not it's smart or inevitable (don't get me wrong; I do agree with both of you), we can't add it into the article yet until a source comes out. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 04:29, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Fake Page

uh i went to a page titled 'Grand Theft Auto V" and i think it is a hoax. the discusion page redirects here. 203.129.60.141 01:49, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing it to our attention. It will be bastardized appropriately. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 02:40, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

No worries. The page has been bastardized. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 04:12, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Confirmed City

I was right. The last city will be Liberty City. The game will not feature character customization to create your own (multiplayer only) It is uncertain if Claude Speed or Toni Cipriani will make an appearance. Professional Gamer 17:27, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Liberty City?! You don't say?! Anyway what do you mean by "the last city"? --70.142.42.81 18:57, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, uhhhh, we already knew about Liberty City, though your info about customizing Niko is a lil' bit helpful. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 19:21, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Some of the fans say that GTA IV will feature Carcer City, but Carcer City will not be featured. Although customizing Niko is possible, like getting new outfits. Although I'm not certain if one of the previous characters from Grand Theft Auto III will be appeared. Professional Gamer 17:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Where are you getting this information? Please provide a source so it can be used. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 11:34, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

You need to type Grand Theft Auto IV on the search bar and Look for The Official Grand Theft Auto IV thread in General Gaming. Professional Gamer 20:42, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it doesn't count if you made it up yourself -- if you didn't, then post a link to wherever you heard it. Also, you don't know, Carcer or any other city may be featured, though it sounds like it won't be the main city. It could be a one-mission thing, like the Marco's Bistro mission in San Andreas where you went to a partially-solid mold of Liberty City and messed up the Bistro. 12.107.246.249 02:06, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Added content on the ps3

"Microsoft could barely contain its glee at being able to confirm exclusive downloadable content for next year's Xbox 360 version of Grand Theft Auto IV - but PS3 fans need not fear, as it seems the Sony release is also firmly in line to receive its very own dazzling additions.

According to a source close to Rockstar North, the team is working on exclusive supplemental content for both systems, which will be made available for download via Microsoft and Sony's respective online services after the game's release next year."

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=68768

I found this on Eurogamer.com is there anyway we can proove this? If we can it should be added to the main page on the episodic content part. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.180.18.11 (talk) 05:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC).

That page is over 7 months old. From what I gather from much more recent information, is that the PS3 will not be getting the 360s version exclusive content, and probably not any downloadable content at all, although it might get some extra content from the get go JayKeaton 10:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

American Dream

i suggest making "American Dream" go blue like this American Dream in the plot section of the article. not really that big a change but it seems relevant enough to the article. 218.186.9.1 13:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it is safe to say you can do this without asking John Hayes 15:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The article is still semi-protected. --70.143.60.65 16:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

thats why i didnt do it myself 58.185.104.72 05:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

oops, sorry, stupid me John Hayes 15:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Algonquin

"algonquin" is probably a reference to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algonquin_Hotel

195.241.220.231 20:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

...or it could be a reference to the fact that Manhattan is an Algonquin word, and the Algonquin borough in GTA references that. Basically, this is original research and shouldn't be added. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 22:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that's some pretty neat research. -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 21:06, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm muy inteligente, haha. And it's actually part of a sub sect language, so to speak of Algonquin, if you wanna be technical, but, all in all, it's still Algonquin. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 00:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

2007?

In the description of the game it says the game takes place in 2007, but I haven't seen any websight article or whatever that confirms this or even guesses as to when the game takes place. I think we should add a source to this.02:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

You can see the Hearst Tower in the the trailer which indicates it is set in 2007. --Bhavesh.Chauhan 21:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Seeing it in the trailer is not a valid source. If you did see it, which I am sure you did, there would be nothing stopping Rockstar using artistic licence to included the building even if it's not set in 2007. John Hayes 11:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Game Informer said it's set in 2007. This is common knowledge at this point.Chris Nelson 14:35, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

the Hearst Tower was actually completed on 4 May 2006. 218.186.9.1 14:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Its All Go For Nintendo!

Rumors have been going on the past few months of Grand Theft Auto IV making its way to the Nintendo Wii. Reggie Fils-Aime, President of Nintendo America, has been pushing Take-Two for a Wii port of the game. It seems his hard work paid off, early this morning a trailer was added to the press website of Rockstar Games announcing GTA IV for the Wii. Because the Wii is not powerful enough to render the same graphics as the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions, it seems as though they've gone with the old engine or perhaps an edited version of it.

What old engine? Someone here said "The Wii isn't powerful enough to run even GTA III." --70.143.63.180 22:50, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

A simple Google search doesn't show anything about Wii getting GTA4, but lots of news articles of GTA4 coming out for 360 and PS3 but not on Wii. - Throw 10:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

This was an April Fools joke. Someone had made a machinima version of the GTA IV trailer using games from the GTA III generation. GTA IV has not been announced on the Wii. Yeanold Viskersenn 15:24, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

It could run GTA 3 easily though, however--Occono 08:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

This is not the place to discuss what the Wii could or could not run, it is about discussing the article. Read the header. John Hayes 11:36, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

UK PS magazine interview

Some new info here. JACOPLANE • 2007-04-27 22:14

Hey, thanks for that. I'll add the information about the confirmed airport right away. -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contributions} 17:52, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm using this information to predict where the airport will be featured:

• [3]
• [4]
• [5]

As the GTA series is known to spoof real life aspects, the airport that's going to be featured is either going to be John F. Kennedy International Airport or LaGuardia Airport unless otherwise. -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contributions} 18:10, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

The policy is not to make assumptions and to use reliable sources for information. That's not say you're not correct, it's a matter of attribution. I think it said in the Offical Playstation Magazine simply that there was an airport. All that can be included at this point is information released by Rockstar either directly or through official magazine articles. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 18:18, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok then, you have a vaild point. Feel free to take the information about JFK and LaGuardia out of the article but you can leave the line about the confirmed airport. -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contributions} 18:21, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Size Matters

Does anyone know exactly how much smaller than San Andreas the map will be? 218.186.9.1 03:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Concerning the article, there hasn't been a source that details Liberty's size yet; we should wait 'till one comes out. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 04:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Liberty City's a lot bigger than you think according to [6]. I hope you can get some information from there to add to the article. -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 22:24, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

In the issue of Official Playstation UK Magazine in the exclusive feature they had their own map and it was a lot smaller than that. They said themselves that Rockstar are keeping the real map secret for now so the difference in size/detail wont be clear until more information comes out. So far they've said the map is smaller, but more densely packed with detail. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 22:42, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Has Rockstar or a reliable source specifically stated that Liberty City will be the only city playable in GTA IV? Or is Liberty City the only confirmed city? 218.186.9.1 11:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

They've specifically said there's only one city, it was their reason why there are no planes. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:23, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Although if the size of liberty city is going to be comparable to GTA:SA, and if it was fine flying planes in that, then perhaps the reason you can't fly planes has something to do with 9/11? ∆ Algonquin 04:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Possibly. It must have gone through their minds. The only thing they're saying publically is that it's it's one city so no planes are needed. In the UK Playstation magazine the interviewer hinted at saying it was something to do with 9/11, but nothing was answered with 9/11 as an excuse. So even though it may be a factor in the decision, until that information is published then the only reason that can be put in the article is they say one city doesn't need planes. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 04:45, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

web

found some interesting info here 218.186.9.1 04:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's the latest information about GTA IV. A similar article can also be found here [7] about the limitations of the Xbox 360 and the PS3 -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 04:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

So when is the next big bit of info due to come out? ∆ Algonquin 13:09, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

No one is sure yet although quite soon I suppose considering the game is releasing in only a few months. -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 14:58, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, on 16 may the Official Playstation magazine Austraila next issue is released, and they are advertising that they are going to fly to NYC for a world exclusive on gta4. i don't know if all mags are going to have this "world excusive". ∆ Algonquin 15:53, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

The British one did John Hayes 16:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Game Informer

I recently read the GI article, and there is a fair bit more information on the game then there is in the wikipedia article. If most if not all of the info in the wikipedia article is taken from GI anyway, then why not put the extra detail in as well? ∆ Algonquin 15:56, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Which part's missing that you want to add? ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 15:58, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Not everyone reads or has a copy of the GI issue of GTA IV. I'm sure you can try to add some information yourself, if not then as BillPP said, which part would you like us to add? -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 16:24, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Mainly small stuff, like quotes and what the game promises to achieve and some minor new features which haven't been mentioned. Do we need some sort of permision to use information taken from a magazine? ∆ Algonquin 00:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't think you need some permission from the magazine, although you can note the reference. I don't have that issue of the magazine so I don't quite know what's missing. -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 20:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I could always type out the article from GI for anyone to read and put in the wikipedia article what they think is missing... although maybe that is a copyright violation ∆ Algonquin 02:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

If you have the magazine, why don't you add what you think is important to the article? --70.128.120.187 14:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Just use the infromation from GI, put it into your own words and type it out on Wikipedia. -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 22:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Irrelevant sentence in opening?

This bit has been in the introductory section for a while now, and it still looks horribly awkward (in bold):

According to Janco Partners analyst Mike Mickey, a financial consultant for Take-Two Interactive Software, around 150 game developers are working on Grand Theft Auto IV. This is more than Grand Theft Auto: Vice City which debuted in 2002, and which had about 130 people listed in the credits (not including voice actors and motion-capture actors).

Is there any reason whatsoever that this sentence is still in the article? Correct me if it's already been discussed. Pele Merengue 09:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Because it's true, and tells us that even more work went into GTAIV than VC? I have no idea. The phrasing used to be worse until someone changed it. --70.143.63.172 09:51, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Someone who is good at writing should re-word it. 218.186.9.1 12:16, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Isn't it obvious that more work is going into IV than Vice City, though? And just because it's true, is it really an important bit of information? It's just such an awkward observation: "This game in the series has 150 people working on it, which is more than one of the games earlier in the series." It just doesn't need to be there. I'm taking it out for now, if anyone wants to put it back, please discuss it here.Pele Merengue 22:26, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Just because something is true doesn't mean it needs to be added; I'm practically parroting WP:OR when I say that. In the end, that's rather irrelevant info and needs to be removed if it hasn't been done so. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 22:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Then why was it there in the first place? I wasn't defending its inclusion, just trying to answer the guy's question. --70.143.63.172 22:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

the Simpsons parody

this seems relevant enough to be included in the article 218.186.9.1 12:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

And even a darts tournament is spoofing the GTA IV countdown. This all really needs to be included in the article. .:Alex:. 16:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

What would the section be called? References in Popular Culture? -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 22:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. 218.186.9.1 09:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

References is what I say but thats just me. What about you guys?--Manny Ribera 15:17, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

"Pop culture references" is fine. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 15:58, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Thats also a good one!--Manny Ribera 14:10, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Phillip Glass

It has been confirmed in a recent interview with Dan Houser that Phillip Glass has been hired to work on some music for GTA IV. Should this info be included? .:Alex:. 15:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I see no problem with that. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 15:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Latest Juicy Details

Here's the latest info for GTA IV: Source:http://planetgrandtheftauto.gamespy.com/fullstory.php?id=119646

• It is possible to view the bus schedule at bus stops in the game. You will most likely be able to ride the bus around the city for a small fee. Check out these two bus stops seen in the trailer.
• When the main character, Niko Bellic, pulls out a weapon in the game, the camera positions itself over the shoulder and a crosshair appears at the center of the screen. The translation claims that it is possible to remain locked on to a target and strafe left or right to avoid shots.
• Niko, the main character, will not be able to get in a car and immediately start driving like in previous games in the series. You will have to perhaps "hot wire" the car. You might also have to sneak up to the car and break the window. These are sketchy details, though, so don't go around thinking this as complete factual information.
• Niko can freely climb several things such as telephone poles and fire escapes. No word if you will be able to climb walls like in San Andreas, though.
• If you were looking closely in the trailer, you could see down into the grating of a sidewalk panel. Light will shine down into these areas, and the subway or sewer is most likely below.
• Though the translation for this next bullet point might have been bad, people are claiming that Philip Glass, the composer of the music heard in the first trailer, will be involved in the production of the game soundtrack.

Where should I put each sentence - which sections? -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 22:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, if the details themselves are sketchy, we may need to wait before adding this. This, of course, is merely my opinion. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 22:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

As much as gamespy may be a valid source it bases the article on this site: http://www.gta-series.com/it/ Which looks to be a fan site rather than a site with a proper editorial process (though I may be wrong). If this is the case we can't use it. I agree with Klptyzm that we should wait, at least until we can source the Italian Offical Playstation Magazine itself. John Hayes 10:22, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Niko will be able to "throw people off buildings" acording to this 218.186.9.1 11:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Here is the info from the site so that people don't have to go to the site:

• According to the magazine, GTA IV is currently 66% complete.
• When Niko pulls out a pistol, a crosshair with a simple black cross within a circle shows up on the screen. This could be an indication of manual aiming being available in the game.
• Rockstar's humorous take on the number 69 makes an appearance yet again in GTA IV, the editors of the magazine saw a sign for a "69th Street Diner". Another building called "Twitchins", the GTA version of Brooklyn's Domino's Sugar Factory, is in the game.
• Niko will be able to climb and descend exterior fire escapes and some meetings will take place high in the office buildings of skyscrapers. It's said that from on top of them you'll be able to throw people off.
• Hand to hand combat is also being reworked on for GTA IV, and will feel "much more natural" than before.
• One of the radio stations includes an "Eastern European-sounding" dancing station.
• Players will be able to change their camera views whilst in a car according to their needs. This however is said to still being experimented on, and that Rockstar want to give better control and "immediacy" to players.
• For confirmation, boats will be making a return and the handling is "really nice".
• When selecting your mobile phone, a zoomed-in version of the mobile screen pops up in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen, where you can use its address book to pitch for "jobs" with gang contacts among other things.
• One of the things that makes it easier for Rockstar setting GTA in a fictional New York is that they sometimes get a call from the developers at Rockstar North in Scotland, wanting to know more about a specific building or traffic flow in a certain area, for instance, and using their in-house researchers in NYC they can easily assist the guys back at R* North.
• Dan Houser is quoted saying that the Liberty City in GTA IV is bigger than any single city they've done before, giving a more clear indication of the physical size of the game.
• He continues saying that the "detail" of the game is the big thing. He also confirms Central Park to be in the game, though it's fictional name is still unknown to us.
• Dan says that they're "certainly evolving the way the radio works". He says the same for police behaviour and their reaction to crimes. Nothing further is said about this...
• "Fun ridiculous" weapons is said to be in the game, because R* is not going too "naturalistic".

∆ Algonquin 12:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like it's gonna be one HELL of a game!--Manny Ribera 14:16, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Refrain from forum like posts. Moving on, if this info is from a good source, maybe we can discuss adding it, in some form. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 15:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I've added the relevant ones and some further ones from the official Xbox magazine, and the official Playstation magazines from Italy and Australia. Yeanold Viskersenn 18:04, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I have bought the British OPM, and it pretty much confirms all this John Hayes 15:59, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

What about the police car change in GTA4. I've noticed that color went from black and white to blue and white in GTA4 should that also be mentioned?!--Manny Ribera 06:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Do you have a source? John Hayes 15:59, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Here's even newer details from Australia's Official OPM magazine:

• The editors of the magazine saw pedestrians reading newspapers, people gesturing as they talked on public phones and people sitting and chatting at bus stops. Some of them even visibly flicked dust off of their trousers.
• When pedestrians get too close to Niko (the main character), he "pushes them aside."
• As a car passed by the main character, the controller vibrated to the bass emanating from inside.
• You can be mugged by other criminals.
• You can bribe characters.
• Niko has the opportunity to deposit and withdraw money via an automatic teller machine (ATM).
• In the demo presented to the editors, Niko entered an apartment, gun drawn. The apartment had multiple rooms including a loungeroom and kitchen. Niko exited through a back doorway/window into an alley where "piles of litter, weeds and homeless guys huddling around fires in barrels" were present.
• In the demo, Niko was struck by a car. He realistically fell to the ground and then got back up.
• We finally got an answer as to why a trailer for the game was released earlier than any other trailer for any other GTA game ever. Dan Houser, co-founder of Rockstar Games said that the company feels that they are showing stuff "earlier than [they] normally would do purely because [they] have got to get enough people excited enough to want to go out and buy the new consoles." Later, he says "we are trying to make things that will make a large number of people go out and buy the machines. We have to do that by showing stuff early because it's a big purchase to people."
• Houser took a "shot" at the PlayStation 3 and Sony by saying "because of the games out there at the moment, I wouldn't go out and spend $600 on one of those machines yet. There's not enough interesting software unless you happen to really like having an expensive box that shows off graphics on some really uninspiring games." He didn't mention the PS3 by name.
• Houser said that the goal for the game is to "create a game that feels like the ultimate gangster crime experience and on the other hand, it's to create a game that feels like the ultimate living in a modern city experience."
• The eating and body-building features from San Andreas will not be in GTA IV because Rockstar "wanted to focus on physics more and they got kind of conflicting."
• Elements of terrorism will be in the game, but there will not be a Ground Zero for the World Trade Center. I am in no way saying that you play a terrorist. If you are a politician or you work for one and you are reading this, you better not be an idiot.
• Houser was asked about a possible PSP title called GTA: San Andreas Stories coming soon, but all Houser had to say was "no real plans at the moment" and that they are "doing some other things" with the handheld device...

Wow! So much information coming this month, eh? -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 17:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Collaboration is spelled wrong

...but I can't fix it. Under "Gameplay". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.230.44.19 (talk) 16:09, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

I don't understand why you couldn't change it - maybe your IP is blocked?, but thanks for bringing it up. I'll change it right away -- Bhavesh.Chauhan ^{Message Me | Contribs} 17:17, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

The article is semi-protected which is why this user could not change it. .:Alex:. 19:22, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

"Citation Needed"

After the "66% complete" part in the first paragraph, it says "citation needed". But it says: "According to Official Xbox Magazine magazine," before. Isn’t this a sufficient citation? Also, if bridges are going to limit Niko's access to other boroughs, then isn't that saying that Niko can't swim? ∆ Algonquin 03:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

It should be enough, but the best kind of reference would be using the {{cite}} template, with Issue, publisher, date, author, article title, etc. all included. As for the swimming thing, I've not read anything that says he can't swim. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 03:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll assume good faith and that that was about whether we should mention swimming in the article. As Bill says there is no source, but bridges limiting access doesn't stop the ability to swim, for example in San Andreas bridges limited access, but you could still swim John Hayes 10:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

yeah i realised that after posting the comment. and what was that about asuming good faith? what reason would you have for not asuming good faith? ∆ Algonquin 11:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I was assuming that you were acting in good faith, in that you had mentioned it so that it could be included in the article, rather than you were just talking about the game. If I had replied without that comment, it might have appeared that I was discussing the game, rather than the article, which isn't allowed. John Hayes 16:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Archive

This page needs to be archived. 218.186.9.1 03:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Too many conversations are still open. A few conversations may need to be though. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 03:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Right, I'm going to archive, most of this can go, Not a Russian Accent!, Liberty City- definitely, Name of the Guy, Trailer treats, Main character's resemblance, High-Resolution pictures, Jack Thompson too long, Game Informer leaked scans, Niko Bellic???????????, Weapons list?, Roman, just to name a few John Hayes 16:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)