Talk:Grave Circle A, Mycenae

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Grave Circle A, Mycenae/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:10, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: one found and fixed. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:12, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Linkrot: none found. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:14, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Substantive review within 24 hours or so. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:14, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   However, it has been proved that the burials date circa three centuries earlier, where Agamemnon is supposed to have lived. This sentence is confusing. Are you meaning that Agamemnon is supposed to have lived three centuries earlier. Earlier than what?

   Grave Circle A, formed in ca. 1600 BC as a new elite burial place drop the "in" and change instances of ca. to circa. MoS dictates that we don't do abbreviations.

   The site of the Grave Circle A was part of a larger funeral place already from the Middle Helladic period. Very clumsy. Suggest "The Grave Circle A site was part of a larger funeral place from the Middle Helladic period."

   The time it was built, during the Late Helladic I, there was probably a small palace on Mycenae, but without large fortifications surrounding it. suggest "At the time it was built, during the Late Helladic I, there was probably a small unfortified palace on Mycenae." Also what on eartn is "the Late Helladic I"?

   Thus, the graves of the Mycenean ruling family remained outside of the city walls "Thus"? This isn't a lecture or a mathematical solution, it is an artcile in an encyclopaedia!

   There is also no evidence of a circular wall around the site that time Very clumsy. What time? Suggest asimply "There is no evidence..."

   In ca. 1250 BC, when the fortifications of Mycenae were extended, the Grave Circle included inside the new wall. Included what?

   It must have been regarded as a sacred place to have been separated from the rest of the cemetery and drawn within the new fortification. Says whom? weasel words.

   ''Thus, the burial site had been replanned as a monument, an attempt by the 13th century BC Mycenean rulers to appropriate the possible heroic past of the older ruling dynasty. That "thus" again.

   Moreover, ornate staffs as well as a scepter from Grave IV clearly indicate a very significant status of the deceased. "moreover" is similar to thus and not needed.

   That time the Mycenaeans have not yet conquered Minoan Crete "At that time"?

   Although, it seems that they recognized the Minoans as the providers of the finest in design and craftsmanship, most of the objects decorated in Minoan style and buried in Grave Circle A are not of Minoan, but of indigenous craftsmanship. wrong placement of commas. try reading it out aloud. Commas are breath pauses.

   Inspired by the confirmation of Homer’s descriptions in the Iliad, Schliemann began digging at Mycenae, which Homer describes as "abounding in gold". Who made th confirmation?

   ''He was also following the accounts of the ancient geographer Pausanias, who during the 2nd century AD, described the once prosperous site and mentioned that according to a local tradition the graves of Agamemnon and his followers, including his charioteer Eurymedon and the two children of Cassandra were buried within the citadel. ASgain the commas are in the wrong places.

   Schliemann cleared five shafts and recognized them as the graves mentioned by Pausanias and stopped his exploration after the fifth grave was explored. Why did he stop?

   However, it has been proven that the burials in Grave Circle A date circa three centuries earlier, before the traditional time of the Trojan War, in which Agamemnon is supposed to have participated. Again confusing to the reader who is not familiar with the periods and the dates.

   Overall the prose is not well written, it is confusing and poorly structured and needs a thorough copy-edit by someone with a good command of plain English.

   MoS: The lead is not a good summary of the article, please see WP:LEAD. As pointed out above there are weasel words and there is some inappropriate word use.

   I have fixed all the above issues, also rephrases and adjusted the lead.Alexikoua (talk) 21:08, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

   I have made a few further copy-edits.[1] Jezhotwells (talk) 00:00, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   appear to be RS, I assume good faith for off-line sources, no evidence of OR

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Broadness: some more detail of the location would be good. It is stated that the grave circle is located on the acropolis, but we have no idea of where the acropolis is located apart the fact that it is southeast of the Lion gate, but we have no idea of where that is. There is quite a good description of location in this already cited source I am not suggesting that you copy or closely paraphrase it but you should be able to draw a word picture of the location. A map or diagram would be good. Is there anything available that Schliemann drew? That would be out of copyright and it would aid understanding.

   Unfortunately Schliemann's few drawings from his diary are not enough detailed, [[2]][[3]][[4]], I've noticed a painting of a supposed mummy which might be good idea to add [[5]](p.6, it's patinted during Schliemann's mission).Alexikoua (talk) 22:29, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

   That might be good, if you can demonstrate it is of that date, not a Ga criteria, but would perhaps be useful. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:00, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

   I also think the whole date, period thing needs sorting out so that the average reader knows where they are, so to speak.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   NPOV

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Images licensed and captioned.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   On hold for seven days for these issues to be addressed. Jezhotwells (talk) 13:20, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

   OK, this is sufficiently improved to meet the criteria, so I am happy to list it. I am sure that your sources may provide further detail foe expansion in the future. Congratulations! Jezhotwells (talk) 00:00, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 September 2019 and 28 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rnixon321.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Possible Clarification about Schliemann and "Agamemnon's" Burial site.

It has not been confirmed that Schliemann's excavation actually does support the exact images and stories portrayed by Homer, however Schliemann thought it did so he never looked for anything disproving it. This is not portrayed clearly so it might help to state that this opinion does not have evidence to avoid confusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apleersnyder (talk • contribs) 18:28, 14 September 2017 (UTC)