Talk:Great Ayton

External links

Dear Keith

I added the Great Ayton Shops, Pubs & Restaurants website as I believe it contributes to the knowledge about Great Ayton. The website is NOT a conventional advertising website but largely a collection of photographs about the inside and outside and of the staff of the establishments. There are a few occurences where what might be called advertising appears but this is not very often. I am the IT Consultant to the Great Ayton Community Archaeological Project whose present 4 year project is to look into the history of Great Ayton. One of the members who looked at my website asked me if I could go back 100 years and make one for 1908. I am also surprised that you removed the websites. The first one I made about Great Ayton shows in photographs lots of views of Great Ayton as it is now. The second one is aimed to advertise the website and does that by selling the features of Great Ayton: Captain Cook; Roseberry Topping; the river etc. I also have YOUTUBES under the name GASBAGSMike for Stokesley, Staithes, Robin Hoods Bay, North Yorkshire Moors' Dales, and Roseberry Topping - all these I would think should be added to Wikipedia Kind Regards

Mike Newton (Dr) —Preceding unsigned comment added by MikeeNewton (talk • contribs) 01:59, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Just to give some background for this note - Mike added 3 external links to the article and I reverted them as inappropriate. The links were to sites -

• Great Ayton's Shops, Pubs & Restaurants
• Great Ayton YOUTUBE - Picturesque & Friendly
• Great Ayton YOUTUBE - Home of Captain Cook

They are really rich media type photograph / movie sites, what do others think about these links? Keith D (talk) 11:57, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I recently looked at Mike Newton's websites and contacted him. It seems to me there is nothing commercial about them. He isn't paid by any of the shops, etc. who feature on the sites. I therefore think these links should be allowed - they are pretty interesting for anyone wanting to know about Great Ayton. Dano'sullivan (talk) 12:38, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

If you read WP:ELNO you'll see that there is no reason to feature any of those links - especially the first one which is just a directory of shops and businesses. The videos are just computer-generated photo slideshows with (likely) copyright-infringing soundtrack (in which case WP:ELNEVER would apply). If his photos are that good, and he really wants to share them with Wikipedia users then they should be released under a compatible licence and uploaded to Wikimedia Commons for all to enjoy. However, as Mike Newton uses the above website to sell his photos (another reason the site shouldn't be linked) I suspect that won't happen. --Simple Bob (talk) 12:49, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps you (Dan) should also reveal that you know Mike Newton, live in the same village and have worked on things together e.g. on this. Conflict of interest is frowned upon here on Wikipedia. --Simple Bob (talk) 23:25, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

It is true that I originally started the Great Ayton Shops, Pubs & Restaurants website with the idea that I could provide a link to my photographs but in the end I have actually sold no photographs off the website and just 3 that are on display at the Royal Oak pub. I regularly maintain this website, free of charge, and add/remove shops as circumstances change. I have also built for free websites for the Great Ayton Tennis Club (http://greataytontennis.wikidot.com/), The Great Ayton Bowls Club (http://greataytonbowls.wikidot.com/), Yatton House - a local care home (http://yattonhouse.wikidot.com),The Great Ayton Stream Magazine (http://great-ayton-stream.wikidot.com),the Stokesley Charity Ride (http://www.stokesleycharityride.org.uk/), The Osmotherley Phoenix Run (http://osmotherleyphoenix.wikidot.com/). All these contain photographs and YOUTUBES provided by me at no charge. I have created YOUTUBES for the Alzheimers Society with my last one of the 2009 Great North Run being featured on their website. I doubt that Simple Bob has looked at the Great Ayton Shop, Pubs & Restaurants website as he would see that it is very beneficial for anyone visiting Great Ayton. Most of my YOUTUBES are under the name GASBAGSMike & Simple Bob may like to have a look. MikeeNewton (talk) 08:49, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Go read WP:ELNO and WP:NOT. Wikipedia does not exist to promote local businesses so I fail to see how a directory of shops and businesses can go on WIkipedia. It is an encyclopaedia, not a collection of links and media. If your links are that valuable a resource then add them to DMOZ (The Open Directory) which I have now put in the article. --Simple Bob (talk) 09:00, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Mike - here's a suggestion for you. The only contributions that you have ever made to Wikipedia have been to add external links. Nearly all the external links that you have added has been removed by other editors. Why don't you focus your efforts on adding content to Wikipedia. Why not write an article on Great Ayton Tennis Club? Why not add encyclopaedic content to other articles in the area, or to places that you have an interest in. Click the Commons link on the Great Ayton (and Little Ayton) articles. Take a look at some of the images there. Could you do better and are you willing to contribute some images under a free licence? Then why not add images to Wikimedia Commons then add those images to relevant articles in the area. --Simple Bob (talk) 09:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Simple Bob, I would ask again if you have entered the website and clicked upon the links to each Shop, Pub & Restaurant and looked at the photographs of the people, and watched the YOUTUBES - see Bloomarie. I am also involved in the Great Ayton Community Archaeological Project as their IT Consultant (free of charge),with one aspect being Shops - as one member stated that if they had a website like the Great Ayton SPAR from 100 years ago it would be fascinating. Great Ayton is a small village of 5000 not a major city like Sheffield, Manchester or London. The Shops, Pubs & Restaurants are important to the community and so are the people who work there. When I want to go somewhere new I look at Wikipedia then will search on YOUTUBE for possible videos which will bring the place to life. I don't see any reason why links to YOUTUBES should not be included as long as they are good - there are many that aren't. Wikipedia could provide links to YOUTUBES that bring a city, town or village to lifeMikeeNewton (talk) 09:45, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I have looked and I just don't see what value there is in a Ken Burns slideshow with some iffy music and low resolution pictures, each shown for just a few seconds. There are plenty of photos of Great Ayton and the surrounding area on Wikimedia Commons. Have you looked at these? People can browse the list and look at what interests them (often in high resolution if they click through on the picture) and study individual pictures in more detail and at their own pace. You can't do that on a canned slideshow. Better still because all the photos on commons are published with free licences so they can legally take them, re-use them, print them out or whatever they want to do (taking care of course to comply with licence conditions such as attribution). That free sharing of content is what Wikipedia is all about, and that's why I'm encouraging you to share. As for the shops and businesses - again, Wikipedia is not here to promote businesses. Nor is it a platform for you to push your own websites and content - perhaps you haven't read Wikipedia's conflict of interest policy. --Simple Bob (talk) 10:26, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Simple Bob, I have looked at your discussion page - it states be POLITE and assume good faith. I think calling my website slide shows "Ken Burns slideshow with some iffy music and low resolution picture" is being very impolite and derogatory. There is no music against the photographs of the inside of shops for a start so I doubt you have looked at the pages. The staff of all the shops were very pleased to have the photographs taken of their premises. The effort of going round to take all the photographs, to create the website was high but I enjoyed it and the result was acclaimed by Great Ayton residents. Have you ever tried the Google Earth Walkthrough? It now goes past my house and is quite remarkable. What we don't see is the inside of the houses or the shops, pubs & restaurants. My website overcomes this limitation. I would love to look at the insides of premises in other countries but as of now there aren't other websites that provide this facility - mine does & is supported by Dan above MikeeNewton (talk) 22:54, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Simple Bob, you have now brought up this conflict of interest thing twice! I am lost as I have no financial gain from the Great Ayton SPAR website and nor does Dan O'Sullivan. My website has had very good reviews by people in Great Ayton and not the derisive comments that you are giving the website. There are actually no photographs of inside the shops, pubs and restaurants anywhere on the web. I am happy for anyone to print out or copy any of my photographs. I was recently asked by the butcher if he could have a copy of a photograph of him and his brother who had recently died of cancer - I provided it framed - free. I am wondering where you live in Somerset - a major town? I see no reason why a small village should not have photographs of shops, pubs and restaurants as an overview - I just provide links on the website to the more commercial aspects of these - some have had websites built. Have you yet looked at the Great Ayton History website (http://greatayton.wikidot.com/)? This website is being built up and is not yet complete. I have actually written the history of the Great Ayton Tennis Club for this site. Will you be derisive about this website - it is not yet complete so it will not be submitted to Wikipedia yet? Great Ayton also has a magazine that is issued twice a year called "The Stream". It dates back to before 1990. I agreed to build a website that could hold back issues (http://great-ayton-stream.wikidot.com) and the back issues have been entered going back to 2000. I would think that this would be of interest to a few people who want to know Great Ayton more. Many people in Great Ayton get involved in the production of this magazine and anyone reading them would get a flavour of the Great Ayton village life. Should I add this link or will you raise the conflict of interest again?

Finally I think Wikipedia is excellent and it is very helpful to have guardians of the content otherwise it would become alike to just searching on the web. I thought that Keith was playing this role - where does your interest lie? Regards. MikeeNewton (talk) 13:06, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

WP:COI has nothing to do with financial gain. Also our WP:EL policy clearly adding the kinds of links you wish to add. They are not WP:RS and they do anot encyclopaedic content. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 14:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

We don't permit promotion of Great Ayton here, even if done for free; spam is spam. Our purpose here is not to provide an excuse to post your travelogues and tourist pamphlets. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:14, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Orange Mike you might enjoy http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=GASBAGSMike#p/f/7/p21nZmtq56M MikeeNewton (talk) 18:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Orange Mike I am lost about your last comment "travelogues and tourist pamphlets" - what are you talking about? The Great Ayton Shops, Pubs & Restaurants is just an information site about Great Ayton - have you even looked at it? If you believe that websites that promote a town/village should be banned then you should also look at Stokesley - they have added a link to the "Visit Stokesley" website which is all about promoting Stokesley but they have given it a link title of "New Stokesley and Area Information website". You will notice above that support for the website came from Dan O'Sullivan who lives in Great Ayton and authored a book http://us.macmillan.com/insearchofcaptaincook and is very well respected in Great Ayton. He is the Chairman of the group researching the history of Great Ayton.MikeeNewton (talk) 14:00, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up on the blatant spam and other non-compliant links at Stokesley. I have now tidied those up and added a DMOZ link. Are there any other articles that you think might need cleaning up? --Simple Bob (talk) 14:12, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Simple Bob Simple Bob I suggest that you try these pages (1) Great Ayton - Great Ayton Tourism, Parish Council & Counity website as promotes Great Ayton; Captain Cook Schoolroom Museum - as promotes a museum; Captain Cook Country as promotes North Yorkshire; The Visit series of website on the pages of Northallerton, Easingwold, Thirsk, Bedale - sometimes called the "Official" websites; then you need to go through all these villages links and ensure there is no promotion involved; you can then start on every other village in North Yorkshire MikeeNewton (talk) 16:51, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

MikeeNewton, please read the Wikipedia guidelines on external links, conflict of interest, [WP:V|verifiability]] and reliable sources. These guidelines and policies have been developed over several years by consensus amongst editors in order that a comprehensive and respected encyclopaedia can be developed. And they have been found to be effective in that goal. A trade directory is not an external link that meets the criteria. In fact the ELL policy states: "Advertising and conflicts of interest: It is true that a link from Wikipedia to an external site may drive Web traffic to that site. But in line with Wikipedia policies, you should avoid linking to a site that you own, maintain, or represent—even if WP guidelines seem to imply that it may otherwise be linked. When in doubt, you may go to the talk page and let another editor decide. This suestion is in line with WP's conflict-of-interest guidelines." Please respect the Wikipedia policies, thanks for pointing out the soapm links on other pages adn remember that Other stuff exists is not a valid argument. Cheers. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 15:26, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Jezhotwells I appreciate your comments and I have read the guidelines. I don't believe my website can be described as a "Trade Directory" - it is quite different. It is more alike to a Googleearth walk-through with the shop doors being open and the inside of the shops being seen and photographs of the staff - this is a unique website and I don't believe one has been built like this before. I am not trying to sell anything but to inform anyone who wants to know what Great Ayton is actually like. I did build the website and did not charge for the work and I am not trying to promote the website so I can sell other websites - it sounds like you would prefer someone else who believes the website is valid to add it. I don't understand where reliable sources and verifiability exactly applies but Dan O'Sullivan, the Chairman of the Great Ayton Archaeological Community Project can verify the website. I hope this helps your understanding. Simple Bob has deleted the Visit Stokesley website from the Stokesley page and intends, I believe, to delete the other Visit series website - these websites give anyone wanting to know more about these places further information and I believe were built by the North Yorkshire County Council - is this sensible? MikeeNewton (talk) 17:41, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I am starting to wonder who administers the administrators. The sense of zeal and enjoyment which some administrators get from deletions reminds me of the Witchfinder generalMikeeNewton (talk) 16:21, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Someone local needed to check images

It would be really good if someone with local knowledge could check through the images in the two Wikimedia Commons categories linked from the boxes on the right. A large number of images have been transferred from Geograph British Isles, but I think that a number have been incorrectly placed in to the Little Ayton category. If you would go and look at the images then make changes to the category as appropriate it would be very helpful.

For those who don't know, Geograph - http://geograph.org.uk - is a project which has set out to photograph every part of Britain and Ireland. Every photo that is uploaded is tagged with its latitude and longitude so that its position on the map can be easily identified. Furthermore, every image is published under a Creative Commons licence, which means that other people are free to use those images for any purpose as long as they attribute the image to (i.e. acknowledge) the original photographer. It is because of that licence that many (possibly most) Geography images in some places have been uploaded to Wikimedia Commons for use in Wikipedia articles. --Simple Bob (talk) 14:19, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

It would be good to get things straight before the next set of images are uploaded, but the same problem exists for all locations in the UK so they all need checking out if any one wants a challenge. Keith D (talk) 00:13, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

I think most of the photos are mine. As Geograph British Isles images are geo-located why have they been mis-allocated? It's a massive job. Some early ones may well have 4 digit grid references but most I think will be 6 digit. I'd rather correct them at source. mjg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjgarratt (talk • contribs) 16:50, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

There are problems of translating the co-ordinate data to a suitable location and getting the right dab that we use on wiki. This is especially true near to boundaries. There is much discussion over this on Commons. The BOT was recently blocked from uploading, following which the BOT operator has walked away from the process. Discussion on loading the images without categories is on-going. Keith D (talk) 19:55, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

How do you make changes to the category? User:mjg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjgarratt (talk • contribs) 17:03, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

The same as you do with any article—on Commons edit the Category:something line on the image to be the appropriate category. Keith D (talk) 19:55, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Photos: overCooked?

Sorry about the bad pun but in all seriousness I was wondering about the balance of photos in the article. We've got one very fine one of the village (townlet??) from some distance, and three of things related to the gallant Captain, of which one isn't really in Canny Atton anyway but up a hill about a sandwich's walk away. Has anyone got nice pics of the village itself? Church, Green, bridges? Something a bit less Cooky would really be welcome, I think. But YMMV. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 14:34, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Woo hoo thanks!! DBaK (talk) 16:15, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

"Notable People"

I don't want to appear that I'm just constantly reverting your work, so have started a discussion here instead.

I don't think it's necessary to have a section entitled "notable people" for Great Ayton, when the section only contains one person, and that person has an entire section devoted to them above under "Landmarks". I understand that he does qualify as a notable person, but that as he's already mentioned in detail, to do so again is just duplicating info that's already been covered in detail. It just looks bad, and isn't necessary. Chaheel Riens (talk) 18:56, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

True, there is more than enough information about James Cook on the Great Ayton page, after all this article is meant to be primarily about Great Ayton and not James Cook. For instance there is a large italicised paragraph on the monument's inscription in the Captain Cook's Monument sub-section. This is duplicate information as it already occurs on the Easby Moor page where it is more relevant. It is this paragraph that ought to go from the Great Ayton page. Stuffed Cat (talk) 20:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

I suppose I concur with that. It's just as easy to get to the monument by walking from the Newton under Roseberry carpark as it is from going through Ayton, so there's probably over-emphasis on the landmarks. They probably warrant a brief mention - certainly his sculpture, and the cottage, but the others can probably go? Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:35, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

I'd keep in all the mentions, as they are relevant, but I'd not make them separate subheads or give all that info. People interested in JC tourism should be able to find it elsewhere or at least at his article here, but it's over the top. How about if the four JC subheads under Landmarks were cut down to just one, "Captain Cook", with all of those things mentioned, and then there would be at the moment just the other subhead for churches. Something like that?? DBaK (talk) 09:36, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Brilliant sort out and tidy, thanks! DBaK (talk) 16:16, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Great Ayton/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

. Requires photographs Requires addition of inline references using one of the {{Cite}} templates Keith D 17:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 17:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 16:38, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Little Ayton

Due to Little Ayton and its article size, the article could be inserted here. Is they a rule not to and can somebody please do it if possible to do so. I am not adept with article merges and might mess it up. Chocolateediter (talk) 02:24, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

We tend to keep places separate, especially as both are civil parishes in their own right so should have separate articles. Keith D (talk) 13:23, 26 October 2020 (UTC)