Talk:Great North Road, Zambia

Cecil Rhodes

Cecil Rhodes died before motor transport became important. His aim was for first a Cape to Cairo telegraph line, then a railway. RobinClay (talk) 14:22, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

"stub" status

Though there certainly remains room for improvement, is it still correct to set this article as a stub? Jan olieslagers (talk) 16:27, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Introduction Writing

Well, the "first sentence" states that the "Great North Road" is from Lusaka northwards, through Kapiri Mposhi and Mpika, to Mbala.

Only from the "next paragraph" do they start mentioning that the name "Great North Road" has actually been taken by the road to Nakonde (no-longer the road to Mbala) from Mpika (contrary to the "first sentence").

Next, they mention somewhere in that introductory paragraph that there is actually a road "south of Lusaka" which is named "Great North Road", meaning that "Lusaka" is not the southern point of this route (contrary to the "first sentence").

So, in my opinion, we need to edit the way the road is explained "before & after" the Infobox in order to clear the issue that I have mentioned above. I believe there is a better way to explain which roads currently constitute the Great North Road of Zambia. GeographicAccountant (talk) 20:01, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @GeographicAccountant,

A bit of historical reference is required here. Prior to 1935 the capital of Northern Rhodesia (Zambia) was Livingstone and the Great North Road was the road running north from there to the border with Tanganyika (Tanzania) via Lusaka, Kabwe (Broken Hill), Kapiri Mposhi and Mbala (Abercorn). After the capital was moved to Lusaka most things were referenced to Lusaka so the Great North Road was considered to start from there and the portion to the south of Lusaka 'lost' the name. So you had roads going north from Lusaka, south from Lusaka and east from Lusaka. The portion of the T2 south from Lusaka up to Kafue is now known as the Kafue Road and the T1 from its junction with the T2 at the Turnpike is known as the Livingstone Road. The T2 from the Turnpike going south is known as the Chirundu Road but none of these roads are formally signposted as such as far as I am aware. There was no road going west from Lusaka until much later, the main route west went from a point +- 70 kms north of Lusaka called Landless Corner, named after the Landless family who farmed and still farm at the the junction of the Mumbwa (now Old Mumbwa) road and the Great North Road. Sometime after Independence, I would hazard a guess in the mid 1970s, the T2 or Great North Road was re routed from Mpika to Nakonde, the border with Tanzania. The Kapiri/Nakonde section became called the Hell Run due to it's poor state and the heavy traffic, mainly trucks carrying goods into Zambia and copper out at the time the border with Rhodesia was closed and before the TAZARA or Tanzam railway was built (Kapiri to Dar). Before Independence the Great North Road was nicknamed the Great North Rut due to its poor state, it was not paved in that period. Five months of heavy rains will turn any unpaved road into a rut.

The Great North Road is now only a section of the T2 which runs from Chirundu to Nakonde. I should think a major re arranging of the road listings for the Zambian road network should be undertaken. It would be better to create pages based on the road references and then the names of each section, in my opinion this would make more sense. For example T1 (Livingstone - Turnpike), T2 (Chirundu - Kafue - Lusaka - Kapiri Mposhi - Nakonde), on this page and the T1 page you could possibly reference the Great North Road as a separate page (the current page) that has the history of the name. Just a suggestion as in the past the Livingstone Road was also termed the Great North Road prior to the move of the capital. CmVChegutu (talk) 12:42, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the Information, @CmVChegutu.

I have changed much of the writing in the article so far. I have removed the comment that the "road to Chirundu from Turnpike" is part of the Great North Road & it is now indicated that "Lusaka" is the southern point of the current Great North Road.

I have also edited the very-first paragraph of the article to state that the current Great North Road is the route from Mpika to Nakonde. The fact that the route used to be from Mpika to Nakonde is now mentioned in the next paragraph instead. Even the fact that the route used to continue all the way to Livingstone is now written in the third paragraph instead of the first.

I have also changed the "old and new routes" section to a "History" section & rewrote how the designation Great North Road has changed overtime. Although picking appropriate citations is proving to be difficult, I have rewritten the information anyway. Chils Kemptonian (talk) 12:53, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Great. The article has been edited. I hope the information currently being shown in the article is the correct Information. Well, I am sure it is. Chils Kemptonian (talk) 12:56, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Chils Kemptonian, looks better. Just a note on the history and the transport of fuel and copper in and out of Zambia during the border closures. Prior to the construction of TAZAMA and TAZARA, copper was flown out and fuel brought in using a pair of Lockheed C-130 Hercules transport planes. The fuel was carried in large rubber 'bladders' and the planes were piloted by Americans. I am not sure where you can find references to this but I know it for a fact as my father once flew to Dar and back on these planes when he worked for the Zambian Government in the Min. of Finance. He had to do an audit of the fuel and copper transport. When there was nothing in the shops in Zambia we once had prawns from Dar flown in on a Hercules. CmVChegutu (talk) 14:22, 6 March 2023 (UTC)