Talk:Great Wrath

Isoviha

The better transliteration in English is "The Great Hate". There is a new book published in Finnish language "Viha" (The Hate) 623 pp ISBN 951-746-748-2 by Kustaa H.J. Vilkuna which describes in detail the Russian occupying policy in Finland and all the effects of their behavings toward Finnish civilian people during their occupation period, based to detailed eye witness reports by local Lutherian priests written down to the church books. Sad reading of such amimality behaving of the Russian army. Foretaste to be come later known elsewhere in Eastern and Middle Central Europe.

JN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.115.124.31 (talk) 13:11, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

No one seems to actually call this "Great Hate" or whatever in English. It's a very distinct Finnish term. I've moved it to the much less complicated "Finland during the Great Northern War".

Peter ^Isotalo 09:57, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Sync

Finnish Wikipedia gives sources that cite 20,000 prisoners enslaved, 6100 killed civilians at Bothnia alone, mass rapes and systematic torturing. Syncing this content with those sources would be valuable. Also linking ethnic cleansing would be appropriate.193.110.109.30 (talk) 08:52, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Russian wikipedia article is much more detailed than this

I guess it would be nice to translate it. 76.119.30.87 (talk) 02:09, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Articles contents

I have some information from the book i used already as a source for the article with regards to Swedish & Russian operations and clashes before 1710 in addition to the those which took place during the Greater Wrath. Should that information be inserted here or placed into some other article, if it should go to another article could some suggestions be offered as to which one?

Main issue with this that the article would then be handling mainly Sweden (primarily its eastern part Finland) vs Russia in the whole of the Greater Northern War instead of just handling the Greater Wrath. - Wanderer602 (talk) 08:25, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Slaves or forced labourers

Is 'slavery' the right term here? Russia did have serfdom at the time, but were these Finns made into serfs? What are the terms that English-language sources use? Maybe forced labour would be a more appropriate term, similar to Forced labour under German rule during World War II and Forced labor in the Soviet Union? Alaexis_¿question? 18:21, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 3 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Great Wrath per unanimous consensus. No such user (talk) 12:47, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

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Finland during the Great Northern War → Great Wrath – All other wikipedias use this term, so I assume this is how it is known in most of the world who cares. The current title is a ""neutral"" Russian point of view that nothing bad happened. Loew Galitz (talk) 19:37, 3 April 2022 (UTC) Loew Galitz (talk) 19:37, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

P.S. The previous page mover wrote "No indication that "Great(er) Wrath)" is actually a common term in English", which is false, as google books readily show. "Finns refer to this period as the Great Wrath, because nearly one-fifth of the population tragically died during the war." - hence the term is not a nationalist hyperbole. Loew Galitz (talk) 19:45, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, the title "Finöland during the Great Northern War" is artificial and descriptive. It is not the established title in English for the period. It is not neutral, but very much influenced by a Russian bias. Trying to white wash the attrocities that come across also in the name of the period in Finnish history. Finnish history must be written correctly by honouring fact also in English. Therefore the change is mandatoryu if wikipedia is to remain a credible encyclopedic journal, and not a propagandist revisionist Russian tool. Sorry to say this bluntly. That is the case. Spespatriae (talk) 08:09, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

The importance of this "time period" is in formation of separate security interests for eastern and western parts of Sweden. The experience of extreme and deliberate brutality under the occupation was not shared, nor understood in western side of Gulf of Bothnia. Result was that Swedes on eastern side, today Finland, started to feel a need for a separate different foreign policy vis a vis Russia. Hence within 10 years Finalnd as a geopolitical entity and nation was formed. The name must be specific and established: "Isoviha" ie. "Great Wrath" It is neutral and holds no bias of any sort. Russians and Finns know how things are. No need to make them pretty. Spespatriae (talk) 14:36, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

@Spespatriae: You have to state clearly, in bold letters: support/oppose. This will make it easier for the closing admin to review the !votes. Loew Galitz (talk) 19:29, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh, I was the one who originally changes the titke to Great Wrath. So I support the change.

Also Great Wrath is the title in German Große Unfrieden, Estonia, Swedish, etc article regarding this event. Spespatriae (talk) 17:35, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

• Support - Wanderer602 (talk) 06:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
• Support -Ljleppan (talk) 08:04, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom—blindlynx 15:54, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Support Aamunpujo (talk) 17:30, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.