Talk:Gresford disaster

Renaming?

See Category talk:Mining disasters for a discussion on whether to rename this and similar articles to remove the capitalisation. [[User:InaugurationBold text[[

Link title

--82.31.187.254 (talk) 19:17, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
]]|Ziggurat]] 21:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

1973 closure

This article says ...closed on economic grounds. The Gresford article says ...closed due to "geological problems". Neither claim is provided with a reference. "Economic grounds" can be a variety of reasons, only one of which is "geological problems". These claims could benefit from clarification. Does anyone have any reliable sources? Feline Hymnic (talk) 17:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

List of casualties

I just wondered whether the list should be put in its own article because of the length of the table? It makes the page unnecessarily long and difficult to navigate.

It's obviously very important, but it's already stated that there were more than 260 casualties, so this seems a little bit too much minutiae.

Any interested person could then use the link to see the page entitled: (for example) List of casualties of the 1934 Gresford Disaster.

Just a thought... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.170.214.23 (talk) 11:39, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd support such a move. garik (talk) 14:11, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree as well. The list is also incorrect, it doesn't match the Remembrance book on the WCBC website or the other lists online. If there are no objections I'll create a new article with the list based on the Book of Remembrance.Apau98 (talk) 09:57, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Fully support. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:51, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Fully support, even though rather late. JDAWiseman (talk) 19:58, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

About 82 years? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:09, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Move of page

Why was this moved without any discussion? It may be, technically, "better grammar", but it's a well-known enough event to merit full capitalisation in this case, surely? Svejk74 (talk) 08:02, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Comment moved from article

The comment below was posted to the article. --bonadea contributions talk 11:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I was reading the article which interested me greatly, I note that the time recorded for the explosion is 2:08 am but the anonymous lyrics below for the poem state time as three in the morning. I just wondered which was the correct time; possibly who ever wrote the lyrics did not know the exact time and so rounded the figure up to 3.00 am —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chameleon6 (talk • contribs) 11:39, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

Victims

The table has been moved as per WP:MEMORIAL.

The names are already available at Wrexham's own Virtual Book of Remembrance which is already an external link in this article.

Surname	Forename	Address	Age	Occupation
Anders	John Thomas	Bertie Road, Wrexham	31	Repairer
Anders	Joseph	Empress Road, Wrexham	27	Beltman
Andrews	Alfred	Benjamin Road, Wrexham	43	Collier
Archibald	Joe	Finney Street, Rhosddu	47	Collier
Archibald	Thomas	Council Houses, Pandy	42	Collier
Byrne	Colin	Goxhill	40	Collier
Bateman	Maldwyn	Lorne Street, Rhosddu	15	Collier
Bather	Edward Wynn	Finney Street, Rhosddu	36	Collier
Beddows	Edward	The Woodlands, High Street, Gwersyllt	63	Collier
Bew	Arthur	Colliery Houses, Rhosddu	45	Collier
Bewley	Thomas	Park Street, Rhosddu	58	Collier
Bowen	Alfred	Langdale Avenue, Rhostyllen	53	Collier
Boycott	Henry	Offa Terrace, Wrexham	38	Packer
Brain	Herbert	Pentrefelin, Wrexham	31	Collier
Bramwell	George	Western Road, New Broughton	30	Collier
Brannan	John	Ffordd Edgeworth, Maesydre, Wrexham	32	Collier
Brown	George	Birkett Street, Rhostyllen	59	Surface worker
Brown	William Arthur	Hightown Road, Wrexham	22	Haulage
Bryan	John A.H.	Llewellyn Road, Coedpoeth	20	Collier
Buckley	A.	Windy Hill, Summerhill	21	Collier
Burns	Fred	Bennions Road, Huntroyde, Wrexham	41	Collier
Capper	John A.	Wrexham Road, Broughton	35	Collier
Cartwright	Albert Edward	Florence Street, Rhosddu	24	Collier
Cartwright	Charles	Florence Street, Rhosddu	24	Collier
Chadwick	Stephen	Kenyon Street, Wrexham	21	Collier
Chesters	Edwin	Beales Cottages, Bradley	67	Fireman
Clutton	Arthur	Lorne Street, Rhosddu	29	Collier
Clutton	George Albert	March Terrace, New Rhosrobin	20	Collier
Clutton	John T.	Council Houses, Pandy	35	Haulage
Collins	John	Council Houses, Pandy	62	Shot Firer
Cornwall	Thomas	Bennions Road, Wrexham	30	Collier
Crump	William	Council Houses, Bradley	36	Collier
Darlington	Thomas	Mountain Street, Rhosllannerchrugog	28	Collier
Davies	Arthur	Havelock Square, Wrexham	24	Collier
Davies	Edward	Cyngorfa, Rhosllannerchrugog	53	Collier
Davies	George William	Farndon Street, Wrexham	26	Collier
Davies	Hugh T.	Holly Bush Terrace, Bradley	26	Collier
Davies	James	Williams Cottages, Moss	31	Collier
Davies	James	Boundary Terrace, Green, Brymbo	37	Collier
Davies	James Edward	Farndon Street, Wrexham	21	Collier
Davies	John	Meifod Place, Wrexham	64	Collier
Davies	John	Fernleigh, Rhosrobin Road, Wrexham	45	Collier
Davies	John E.	Bennions Road, Wrexham	32	Collier
Davies	John R.	Fernleigh, Rhosrobin	69	Collier
Davies	Matthias	Erw Las, Maesydre, Wrexham		Collier
Davies	Peter	Newtown, Gresford	50	Collier
Davies	Peter	March Terrace, New Rhosrobin	25	Collier
Davies	Peter	Glanllyn, Bradley	21	Collier
Davies	Robert Thomas	Mountain View, Caego	34	Collier
Davies	Samuel	Woodland View, New Rhosrobin	35	Collier
Davies	Thomas	Erw Cottage, Caergwrle	31	Collier
Davies	William	Acton Terrace, Rhosnesni, Wrexham	33	Collier
Dodd	Thomas	Maeseinion, Rhosllannerchrugog	39	Collier
Duckett	Fred	Beech Terrace, Ruabon	29	Collier
Edge	John	Nelson Street, Hightown	28	Collier
Edge	Samuel	South Street, Rhosllannerchrugog	30	Collier
Edwards	Albert	Nr Kings Head, Moss	62	Collier
Edwards	Ernest	Green Road, Brymbo	16	Collier
Edwards	E. Glyn	Woodland View, New Rhosrobin	23	Collier
Edwards	Ernest Thomas	Queen Street, Rhosllannerchrugog	53	Collier
Edwards	Frank	Chestnut Ave, Acton, Wrexham	23	Collier
Edwards	James Sam	Top Road, Moss	87	Collier
Edwards	John Edward	Glanyrafon, Maesydre	39	Collier
Edwards	John C.	Coronation Cottages, New Road, Southsea		Collier
Edwards	Thomas David	New Street, Rhosllannerchrugog	40	Collier
Edwards	William	Church Street, Rhosllannerchrugog	32	Collier
Edwardson	John	High Street, Gresford	41	Collier
Ellis	George	Council Houses, Pandy	43	Collier
Evans	Fred	Grange Road, Rhosddu	50	Collier
Evans	John	Ness Cottage, Park Wall, Gwersyllt	32	Collier
Evans	Norman	Grange Road, Rhosddu	45	Collier
Evans	Ralph	Pentre Lane, Llay	34	Collier
Fisher	Len	Maple Avenue, Acton	44	Collier
Foulkes	Irwin	Bryn Gardden, Rhosllannerchrugog	21	Collier
Gabriel	Richard George	Crispin Lane, Wrexham	61	Collier
Gittins	Johm Henry	Abenbury Street, Wrexham	42	Collier
Goodwin	John	Chapel Road, New Broughton	51	Collier
Griffiths	Edward	Brandie Cottages, Ruabon	21	Collier
Griffiths	Ellis	Cyngorfa, Rhosllannerchrugog	50	Collier
Griffiths	Emmanuel	High Street, Penycae	53	Collier
Griffiths	Charles	Gardd Estyn, Garden Village	25	Collier
Griffiths	Frank	Oxford Street, Wrexham	57	Collier
Griffiths	Walter	Victoria Road, Brynteg	50	Collier
Hall	Walter	Church Road, Brynteg	49	Collier
Hallam	T.W.	Railway Terrace, Gwersyllt	32	Collier
Hamlington	Arthur	Yew Tree Cottage, Summerhill	62	Collier
Hampson	Frank	Ruabon Road, Rhostyllen	32	Collier
Harrison	Arthur	Moss Hill, Moss	21	Collier
Harrison	Charles Edward	James Street, Wrexham	15	Collier
Hewitt	Phillip	Poplar Avenue, Rhosllannerchrugog	56	Collier
Higgins	William	Finney Street, Rhosddu	27	Collier
Holt	Alfred	Pentre Lane, Llay	31	Collier
Houlden	John Henry	Second Avenue, Llay	21	Collier
Hughes	Cecil	Tanygraig, Minera	23	Collier
Hughes	Daniel	First Avenue, Llay	56	Rescuer
Hughes	Francis O.	Acton Terrace, Rhosnesni	60	Collier
Hughes	Harry	Hill Crescent, Spring Lodge, Wrexham	44	Collier
Hughes	John	Percy Road, Wrexham	58	Collier
Hughes	Peter Joseph	Tanygraig, Minera	27	Collier
Hughes	Robert John	Lorne Street, Rhosddu	29	Collier
Hughes	Walter Ellis	Rosemary Crescent, Rhostyllen	24	Collier
Hughes	William	Long Row, Brymbo	43	Collier
Hughes	William	Jackson's Houses, New Rhosrobin	54	Rescuer
Humphreys	Ben	Vernon Street, Rhosddu	34	Collier
Humphreys	John	Edwards Road, Brynteg	30	Collier
Husbands	Thomas	Manley Road, Wrexham	40	Collier
Jarvis	Ernest	Ddol, Bersham	41	Collier
Jenkins	William	Heol Offa, Tanyfron	25	Collier
Johns	Percy	Ffordd Edgeworth, Maesydre	27	Collier
Jones	Albert Edward	Nelson Street, Wrexham	31	Collier
Jones	Azariah	Westminster Road, Moss	37	Collier
Jones	Cyril	Main Road, Rhosrobin	26	Collier
Jones	Daniel	Western Road, New Broughton	33	Collier
Jones	David L.	Colliery Road, Rhosddu	36	Collier
Jones	Edward	Woodland View, High Street, Gwersyllt	64	Collier
Jones	Edward	Queen Street, Cefn Mawr	56	Collier
Jones	Edward George	Ruabon Road, Wrexham	23	Collier
Jones	Eric	Rosemary Crescent, Rhostyllen	23	Collier
Jones	Ernest	Glan Garth, Maesydre	36	Collier
Jones	Bill	Glan Garth, Maesydre	14	Collier
Jones	Evan Hugh	Marion House, New Brighton, Minera	55	Collier
Jones	Fred	Woodland View, New Rhosrobin	30	Collier
Jones	Frederick H.C.	Bridge Street, Holt	31	Collier
Jones	Francis	Council Houses, Berse	27	Collier
Jones	George	Glan Garth, Maesydre	47	Collier
Jones	George Humphrey	Russell Street, Cefn Mawr	22	Collier
Jones	Gwilym	Glan Garth, Maesydre	52	Collier
Jones	Henry	Gordon Terrace, Rhosddu	59	Collier
Jones	Idris	Nant Road, Coedpoeth	37	Collier
Jones	Iorwerth	Bryn Dolwar, Rhosrobin Road, Wrexham	52	Collier
Jones	Jabez	Morgan Avenue, Rhosddu	43	Collier
Jones	John Dan	Williams Cottages, Moss	42	Collier
Jones	John Richard	Mostyn View, Coedpoeth	33	Collier
Jones	John Robert	Pentre Lane, Llay		Collier
Jones	Llewellyn	Windsor Road, New Broughton	49	Collier
Jones	Llewellyn	Yew Tree Bungalow, Gresford	40	Collier
Jones	Llewellyn	Bersham Road, New Broughton	38	Collier
Jones	Neville	Ffordd Maelor, Maesydre, Wrexham	30	Collier
Jones	Richard Henry	Bryn Terrace, Ruabon	21	Collier
Jones	Richard J.	White House Lodge, Brymbo	34	Collier
Jones	Robert	Trefechan, Penycae	57	Deputy
Jones	Robert	Hillock Lane, Gresford	49	Collier
Jones	Thomas	Council Houses, Gresford	55	Collier
Jones	Thomas E.	Poolmouth Road, Moss		Collier
Jones	Thomas John	Bryndedwydd, Marford Hill	58	Collier
Jones	Thomas O.	Penllyn, Trevor, Llangollen	59	Collier
Jones	William	Lorne Street, Rhosddu	51	Collier
Jones	William	Lloyd Street, Rhosllannerchrugog	21	Collier
Kelsall	James	Florence Street, Wrexham	30	Collier
Kelsall	John	Rose Cottage, Common Wood, Holt	37	Collier
Lawrence	William	Nelson Street, Hightown, Wrexham	43	Collier
Lee	John Lee	Heol Offa, Coedpoeth	30	Collier
Lee	Thomas	Heol Offa, Coedpoeth	16	Collier
Lewis	David	Merlin Street, Johnstown	44	Collier
Lewis	David Thomas	Middle Road, Coedpoeth	46	Collier
Lewis	Jack	Cefn y Bedd	48	Rescuer
Lilly	Joel	Main Road, Rhosrobin	41	Collier
Lloyd	Thomas	Colliery Road, Rhosddu	55	Collier
Lloyd	William	Finney Street, Rhosddu	59	Collier
Lloyd	William Sidney	Pentre Lane, Llay		Collier
Lucas	John	Council Houses, Gwersyllt	59	Collier
Maggs	Colin	Talwrn House, Talwrn	17	Collier
Mannion	Albert	Hill Crest, Spring Lodge, Wrexham	29	Collier
Manuel	Thomas A.	Meadows Lane, Spring Lodge, Wrexham	33	Collier
Martin	William Henry	Newtown, Gresford	37	Collier
Matthews	William V.	Hill Street, Penycae	18	Collier
Mathias	Samuel	Eagle's Place, Moss	42	Rescuer
McKean	John	Cheshire View, Spring Lodge, Wrexham	30	Collier
Meade	William	St. John's Road, Wrexham	39	Collier
Mitchell	George	James Street, Wrexham	23	Collier
Monks	Ernest	Glanrafon, Bwlchgwyn	23	Collier
Morley	Edward	Council Houses, Bradley	57	Collier
Morris	Alfred	High Street, Penycae	20	Collier
Nichols	Harry	Ashfield Road, Crispin Lane, Wrexham	32	Collier
Nichols	John	Beast Market, Wrexham	29	Collier
Nichols	William Henry	Farndon Street, Wrexham	25	Collier
Owens	Evan Henry	Cunliffe Walk, Garden Village, Wrexham	54	Collier
Palmer	Alex	Kingstown, Maesydre	20	Collier
Parry	Isaac	Western View, Wrexham Road, Brymbo	40	Collier
Parry	Joseph	Western View, Wrexham Road, Brymbo	65	Collier
Parry	John E.	Pisgah Hill, New Broughton	31	Collier
Parry	John Richard	Manley Road, Wrexham	21	Collier
Penny	Stephen	Stansty View, New Rhosrobin	23	Collier
Penny	William H.	Council Houses, Pandy	32	Collier
Perrin	Frank	Finney Street, Rhosddu	23	Collier
Peters	Henry	Pentre Lane, Llay	38	Collier
Phillips	George	Trevanna Way, Spring Lodge, Wrexham	22	Collier
Phillips	Herbert	Haig Road, Hightown, Wrexham	30	Collier
Phillips	John	Gardd Estyn, Garden Village, Wrexham	40	Collier
Pickering	J.	Sycamore Terrace, Old Rhosrobin	22	Collier
Powell	Charles	Dale Street, Wrexham	57	Railman
Price	Ernest	Moss Hill, Moss	27	Collier
Price	Samuel	Oakfield Terrace, Gresford	37	Collier
Pridding	James	Oxford Street, Wrexham	32	Collier
Prince	Mark	Manley Road, Wrexham	59	Collier
Prince	William	Meadow Lea, Spring Lodge, Wrexham	30	Collier
Pritchard	Isiah	Woodland View, New Rhosrobin	54	Collier
Pugh	Ernest	Quarry Rd, Brynteg	49	Collier
Pugh	Thomas	Vernon Street, Wrexham	54	Collier
Ralphs	John	Market Street, Wrexham	53	Collier
Rance	Thomas	High Street, Pentre Broughton	21	Collier
Rees	Albert	Gatewen Road, New Broughton	56	Collier
Reid	Lloyd	Bryn Gardden, Rhosllannerchrugog	20	Collier
Roberts	Arthur A.	Wire Mill Cottage, Bradley	63	Collier
Roberts	Edward	Bryn Estyn Cottage, Rhosnesni	35	Collier
Roberts	Edward C.	Council Houses, Gresford	42	Collier
Roberts	Ernest	Little Penybryn, Abenbury	26	Collier
Roberts	Frank	Bury Street, Wrexham	26	Collier
Roberts	George	Glanrafon, Maesydre, Wrexham	28	Repairer
Roberts	H.	Patison Road, Coedpoeth		Collier
Roberts	Idris	Pumphouse, Highfield, Stansty	16	Collier
Roberts	John David	Lorne Street, Rhosddu	47	Collier
Roberts	John H.	Patison Row, Coedpoeth	33	Collier
Roberts	Olwyn	Hill Street, Penycae	24	Collier
Roberts	Percy	Bungalow, Llidiart Fanny, Coedpoeth	26	Collier
Roberts	Robert	off Brook Street, Rhosllannerchrugog	33	Collier
Roberts	Robert John	Market Street, Wrexham		Collier
Roberts	Robert Thomas	Crispin Lane, Wrexham	57	Collier
Roberts	Robert William	Forge Row, Southsea	38	Collier
Roberts	Thomas James	Kendrick Place, Beast Market, Wrexham	19	Collier
Roberts	William	Princes Street, Wrexham	45	Collier
Roberts	William T.	Pentre Lane, Llay	40	Collier
Robertson	William	Spring Road, Rhosddu	41	Collier
Rogers	Edward Llewellyn	New Houses Lane, Llay	20	Collier
Rogers	Grenville	Wheatsheaf Lane, Gwersyllt	29	Collier
Ross	Harry	Nelson Street, Wrexham	34	Collier
Rowlands	John	Holt Road, Wrexham	36	Collier
Rowland	John David	Old Cross Foxes, Minera	17	Collier
Salisbury	William	Victoria Road, Brynteg	48	Collier
Shaw	George	Ashwood, Wrexham Road, Brynteg	63	Collier
Shone	John	Gresford	34	Collier
Shone	Richard	High Street, Gresford	49	Collier
Slawson	Arthur	Crescent Road, Wrexham	22	Collier
Smith	Leonard	Bennions Road, Huntroyde, Wrexham	20	Collier
Stevens	Richard T.	Pisgah Hill, Pentre Broughton	22	Collier
Strange	Albert	Nelson Street, Wrexham	25	Collier
Statford	Stanley	Ninth Avenue, Llay	39	Collier
Tarran	John	Liverpool Road, Buckley	59	Collier
Taylor	William Henry	Church Street, Holt	53	Collier
Thomas	Berwyn	Kent Road, Lodge, Brymbo	26	Collier
Thomas	John Elias	Queen's Terrace, Gwersyllt	29	Collier
Thomas	Robert	Pant Hill, Rhosllannerchrugog	32	Collier
Thomas	Tec	Council Houses, Pandy	26	Collier
Thornton	John	Coronation Cottages, New Broughton	24	Collier
Tittle	Edward	Smithy Lane, Acton	44	Collier
Trowe	Ernest	Huntroyde Avenue, Wrexham	41	Collier
Valentine	Fred	Glan Dwr, Acrefair	24	Collier
Vaughan	John Edward	Alford Street, Wrexham	28	Collier
White	John	Chapel Cottages, Gresford	38	Collier
Williams	George	Gardden Terrace, Summerhill	31	Collier
Williams	Harold	Osborne Terrace, Claypit Lane, Gresford	37	Collier
Williams	Hugh Llewellyn	Park Street, Rhosddu	43	Collier
Williams	John	Cheetham's Lodging Houses, Wrexham	62	Collier
Williams	John	Dale Street, Wrexham	44	Collier
Williams	John	Council Houses, Brynteg	66	Collier
Williams	John D.	Vulcan Cottage, New Road, Southsea	29	Collier
Williams	John Thomas	Brynffynnon, Brymbo	33	Collier
Williams	Morris	Pentre Lane, Llay	24	Electrician
Williams	Reg	Old Rhosrobin	29	Electrician
Williams	Thomas	Park View Stores, Bradley	57	Collier
Williams	William A.	Gatewen Road, Pentre Broughton	29	Collier
Wilson	John Walter	Victoria Terrace, Coedpoeth	32	Collier
Witter	Henry	The Mount, Gresford	56	Collier
Wynn	Edward	Bradley Road, Wrexham	68	Collier
Winyard	J.	New Inn, Cefnybedd	47	Collier
Yemm	Morgan James	Seventh Avenue, Llay	28	Collier

Christie’s auction

Not worthy of comment in the main article, but perhaps of interesting to passing researchers, might be an auction by Messrs. Christie, Manson & Woods, on Tuesday 2nd October 1934, “of Works Of Art presented by the Exhibitors at The Antique Dealers’ Fair for the benefit of The Mansion House Fund, In aid of dependents of Miners who lost their lives in the Gresford Colliery disaster, which will be sold without reserve”. (My picture 22176.) JDAWiseman (talk) 17:28, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

There seems to be far more detail about the Disaster Relief Fund(s) at the main article. Not sure why that does not also appear here. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:39, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

I’m writing a book on Vintage Port, so have been going through Christie’s catalogues. Thinking of Wikipedia, of this auction I photographed only the title page. Christie’s allows me to post a paper copy to people, but not to send digital. If you need paper — to decide whether to add to article — I very willing to post/mail a paper copy (my contact info). JDAWiseman (talk) 17:46, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

That's remarkably thoughtful and generous of you, JD. I'll wait to see what other editors think about it. I guess we might see you (eventually) over at Port_wine#Vintage_port? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:51, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Subsequent to my posts in 2014, Christie’s have told me that I can re-use pictures. Hence small (394×606) and large (1578×2427). JDAWiseman (talk) 13:08, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

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Gathering the Jewels

The Gathering the Jewels mainpage says this:

"Gathering the Jewels is offline due to essential security maintenance.

We apologise for any problems this may cause.

You can view nearly all the GTJ items on the Peoples Collection website

The link is present on many pages, but without an indication of likely offline duration, it's difficult to know whether it should be replaced or explained in more detail. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:42, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 13 October 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved back to Gresford disaster. No support for capital D. Nom has just wasted time by not following RM procedures. Andrewa (talk) 05:11, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

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Gresford Mining Disaster → Gresford Disaster – Consistency with capital D in article text. Failed first move will not allow UNDO. Current title is a stop-gap placeholder. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:54, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I believe that the WP:MOS would say it should go back to where it was, at Gresford disaster. --David Biddulph (talk) 17:58, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

• Gresford Colliery disaster J3Mrs (talk) 18:04, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Happy with all the text being different? What does MoS say about that? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:29, 13 October 2016 (UTC) p.s. London Beer flood? p.p.s but Senghenydd colliery disaster suggests this should be "Gresford colliery disaster"?

Gresford Colliery is a proper noun, as is Colliery so perhaps that should be changed. J3Mrs (talk) 19:04, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

I am mistaken, Senghenydd is the village name, not that of the colliery, so that title is correct, but I still think the article's title should be Gresford Colliery disaster which is where it happened rather than in the village. J3Mrs (talk) 06:49, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

• Revert to Gresford disaster until/unless someone presents a case for a proper name here. From book search it appears that Gresford disaster is what it is mostly called; much more than including colliery in it. Dicklyon (talk) 02:40, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

• The original intended move was simply from d to D. Many of the results in your link show "Gresford Disaster". Or is everyone quite happy to see "Gresford disaster" as the article title and "Gresford Disaster" in the opening line? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:28, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

• The article title and the opening line should be the same. Disaster should not be capitalised in either. I have seen the disaster called both the Gresford disaster and Gresford Colliery disaster, Colliery makes it clear where the disaster occurred. Either way no capital D. J3Mrs (talk) 12:11, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

• And seen it called the Gresford Disaster. See some of Dicklyon's links above. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

• When it's both ways in sources, as here, we default to lowercase per MOS:CAPS. But it looks to me like majority lowercase any way. Dicklyon (talk) 21:41, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

• Support Gresford disaster. It's far more commonly used; for example Google Books returns 1040 for "Gresford disaster" compared to only 9 for "Gresford mining disaster".--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:39, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

• The proposal here is for capital D. So I am assuming you oppose that. But once again your Google search, like Dicky-lion's, comes back with both variants. I'm sure "tied-to-Google-search-results" is not policy, but I've got a sneaky feeling that any question back at MoS:CAPs about capitalisation of proper nouns will lead us to the wonderful Chicago Manual of Style. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Post move

"Nom made a spelling mistake and was unable to correct it". Please read the history. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:00, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Please accept that I did read several article histories... and quite a lot of other stuff to figure out exactly what you had done. (And I think I got it right.)

Please do not move an article to a placeholder, as I have already requested at User talk:Martinevans123#Bold or RM but not both please. Just raise a technical request. That's what they are for.

We are all learners here! WP:creed#13 WP:creed#15 Andrewa (talk) 16:39, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

I have replied at User talk:Martinevans123#Bold or RM but not both please. I had assumed that [1] would be a bit of a giveaway. Except that the log for that change says (quite incorectly) "(No difference)". Martinevans123 (talk) 16:48, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Map

Gresford
Gresford Location within Wrexham
Population	5,010 (2011 Census)
Community	Gresford
Principal area	Wrexham
Country	Wales
Sovereign state	United Kingdom
Police	North Wales
Fire	North Wales
Ambulance	Welsh
Senedd Cymru – Welsh Parliament	Wrexham

Could there be a map? Perhaps the map in the article about the village of Gresford, but ideally one marking the colliery. And definitely with the inset showing where in Wales. (But I don’t know how to extract the map without all the village-level information.) JDAWiseman (talk) 18:49, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

A very good idea, I think. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:32, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

References

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References

An editor has indicated that he needs about 8 citations adding to the main article. There are already 5 different incomplete citations of the official report satisfying 11 references. I would like to help Howcheng out by providing the required references and citations which mainly come from the official report, but am disinclined to further muddy the system. In accordance with WP:CITEVAR I would therefore like to seek consensus to change the established style since:

1. With multiple references to a single work it is clearer to cite it once, fully, and then permit references to be detailed.
2. A 200 page online report without original page breaks needs to be differentiated by section, not just chapter.
3. Changing the style now whilst there are relatively few citations (24, including duplicates) is preferable to trying to sort out the mess later.

I'm happy to take on the work both to change over citation style and to satisfy Howcheng if we can agree this in a reasonable timeframe - could we say by 27 Sept? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:51, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Sounds good, & it's great to see somone actually asking, for a change. Agree with #1 in principle, but it's not clear what it would look like. #2 certainly right. Johnbod (talk) 00:18, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Something like this: "and far too small to provide adequate ventilation." and later: "confessed to 'an uneasy feeling that Mr. Bonsall was overridden' on the matter."

References

• Walker, Sir Henry, CBE LlD (Commissioner); Brass, John, MInstCE MIMinE (Assessor); Jones, Joseph, CBE JP (Assessor) (January 1937), Reports on the causes of and circumstances attending the explosion which occurred at Gresford Colliery, Denbigh on 22nd September, 1934, retrieved 21 September 2018 – via Durham Mining Museum{{citation}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

Oh, you didn't say sfn. I and many others loath it, but it will do the job, if probably put some people off from adding in the future. No objection to your plans. Thanks for clarifying. Johnbod (talk) 14:09, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

 Done Several of the references to the main report are vague, I'll now start to chase them down and also to deal with the {{cn}} issue. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 16:47, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

The coordinates as previously give come down in a housing estate a little to the south of the industrial estate. "In the 1980s the site was redeveloped as an industrial estate." made me suspicious, and looking at the 1945 1" OS map a location slightly further North seems correct. I've updated the coordinates accordingly, can anyone confirm this work? Thanks, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 13:51, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes, that's almost exactly right (I remember the mine buildings after closure). Svejk74 (talk) 15:04, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Lyrics

Are the lyrics for the folk song "The Gresford Disaster" Roud Folk Song Index No:3089, covered by copyright, even though they were written "anonymously"? Or does that depend on when and by whom they were first published? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:31, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia takes copyright of external material seriously. See: WP:COPYOTHERS. If there is doubt, it should not be included. The onus is to demonstrate that the material is free of copyright. Feline Hymnic (talk) 13:22, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

The song is noted as "trad." on several recordings (eg the Albion Band. Position in the UK is that copyright in cases of unknown authorship lasts for 70 years after the work is 'made', which in this case is assumed to have been c.1935 (see Laidlaw, 1995, "The Gresford Disaster in Popular Memory", Llafur v.6 n.4)Svejk74 (talk) 13:37, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure there was any "Attribution-NonCommercial 2.0 Generic (CC BY-NC 2.0)" back in 1935? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:49, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

It's basically a typical anonymous broadside ballad, albeit a 20th century example'Svejk74 (talk) 14:55, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Then I'm not sure what these "doubts" about copyright are. It's now 86 years since they were anonymously written. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:14, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, I can't see any doubt here. Svejk74 (talk) 15:34, 1 April 2021 (UTC)