Talk:Grgo Martić

PROD Comment

Quite a few gBook hits. Given that subject is 1) not a native English speaker and 2) pre-internet, 251 hits is a bit impressive. My greek isn't good (OK, it's non-existent), so I can't decipher too much, but dude has a statue erected in his honor. I suspect notability can easily be asserted by someone who speaks the language.

74.69.39.11 (talk) 02:33, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Removed prod. Father Grga Martić certainly is notable. Williamborg (Bill) 03:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Recent edit

English uses "Bosnian" as an adjective for Bosnia and Herzegovina, stop implying that Herzegovina is a country.PRODUCER (talk) 23:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

• there is no such a country called "Bosnia"! There is only BiH-as such recognized worldwide.including English speaking country
• most common nonses are not of our concern.

--Añtó| Àntó (talk) 09:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Request for third party opinion

Hi all: I am unclear as to the exact nature of the problem which has lead to a request for third-party opinion. From the limited discussion on this page, it could be (a) whether Grgo Martić originated from Bosnia/Herzegovinia/Other place; or (b) whether it is appropriate to identify Herzegovinia as a seperate region from Bosnia. It could, of course, be some other matter. Please advise the exact nature of the contested claim(s) below;

Third opinion

Muzhogg (talk · contribs) wants to offer a third opinion. To assist with the process, editors are requested to summarize the dispute in a short sentence below.

Viewpoint by PRODUCER

Ive already explained that English uses "Bosnian" as an adjective for Bosnia and Herzegovina (see [1]), despite this Aradic (not familiar with English) insists on using simply "Herzegovina" or "Herzegovinian" (in Antun Branko Šimić) misleading users to believe its a country.

Viewpoint by (--Añtó| Àntó (talk) 16

35, 18 June 2009 (UTC)): ....

The official country name in English is Bosnia and Herzegovina. Under such name is recognized by the OUN [2][3] by the USA and other English speaking countries [4][5] etc. Officially ther is no any country named "Bosnia"! Therefore people from BiH can be referred as "People from Bosnia and Herzegovina" or Bosnian/Herzegovinian separately.

Peopl from Bosnia can not be referred as Herzegovinians neither poeple from Herzegovinia as Bosnians. Simple. There is no country named Bosnia neither Herzegovina. Just one :Bosnia and Herzegovina

And for the end... last but not the least:Grgo Martić was native of Posušje. Although there is no strict boarder between B&H In case of Posušje there is no doubt:Herzegovina 100% --Añtó| Àntó (talk) 16:35, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Third opinion by Muzhogg

....

Thanks for the additional arguments.
I'm sure you're both well aware of the huge problems surrounding political, regional, and ethnic identities, and how difficult this makes any solution. The best we might hope for is that everybody is equally dissatified!
I seems to me that the best solution might be to avoid seeking a single term that describes Grgo's origins, and instead recognize the problem by clearly identifying three facts: (1) that Grgo lived at a time before BiH existed as an identifiable nation (so saying he came from BiH is itself not strictly accurate); (2) that Herzegovina is a region, not a country; and (3) that this region lies within what is now BiH.
Taking this into account, I would suggest rewording the first line of the lead to read something like;

"Grgo Martić (born 1822 - died 1905) was a friar and writer from the region of Herzegovina in the Ottoman province of Bosnia (present day Bosnia and Herzegovina)."

This would be consistent with the Wikipedia articles on BiH, Herzegovina, and the Ottoman province of Bosnia, and would make the regional, national, and historical relationships somewhat clearer.
By providing the links to the other Wikipedia articles it would enable people to click through to find more information.
This is probably not an ideal solution, but given that the article is a bio on Grgo not an article on the historical, geographical, and political issues, I hope you'll find it a suitable compromise.
As for refering to Grgo as "Bosnian" my suggestion would be that this is itself misleading - particularly if it refers to a citizen/resident of modern day BiH as suggested. As Grgo lived prior to the formation of BiH, it would not be entirely appropriate to speak of him as "Bosnian". But neither do I think he would have seen himself as "Herzegovinian." Perhaps the article should simply seek to avoid using any such labels altogether. That's about as much as I can think of to resolve what is, given all of the issues concerned, a pretty difficult issue.
Hope it helps, Muzhogg (talk) 19:58, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

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External links modified

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