Talk:Guacamole

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Bijdenhandje (talk) 17:39, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Basic Ingredients

I made a relavitely minor change regarding black pepper. Having had guacamole all over Mexico and California, in homes and in restaurants, it's clear that black pepper is not a standard ingredient, much less large amounts of it. It does show up from time to time, mostly in American (non-Mexican) homes, so I've listed it as the first in the list of variations along with the note about it not being authentic to the Aztec tradition. But the only three ingredients that are always present are avocado, lime juice, and salt, so only those should be listed as the "basic ingredients." NickJA 20:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)NickJA

The ingredients are incorrect. The first line is mostly correct, with the glaring omission of garlic and often cumin. Often a small amount of picante sauce is added, as well. Most people don't realize, garlic is a widely used Mexican spice; cilantro is not. Cilantro is an Anglo American addition to the recipe due to a recent fad of loading everything even loosely related to Mexican food with the herb, much as sour cream is an Anglo American addition to Mexican food in general. Jkhamlin (talk) 15:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Comment to article and above: I do not have first hand knowledge as to what the basic or traditional ingredients are. However, I have seen Mexicans complain that neither lime juice nor cream are normal ingredients. And both of my traditional cookbooks lists the very same six ingredients: Avocado, tomato, onion, Serrano chilli, coriander (cilantro), and salt. The books are "La tradicional Cosina Mexicana (a sus merores recetas)" by Adela Fernandez, and "The art of Mexican Cooking (traditional Mexican cooking for aficionados)" by Diana Kennedy. The statement above that coriander is not widely used in Mexico I find questionable: My experience is it is used much as parsley is in western cooking, that is, very often. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Editor2048 (talk • contribs) 20:18, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

^ That's nonsense. Mexican markets sell crema agria, which is their version of sour cream. And the only times I've encountered cilantro is in Mexican cuisine. 63.92.241.153 (talk) 20:29, 10 October 2016 (UTC) Darwin

Eryngium foetidum is native to the Americas, but citrus aurantiifolia and coriandrum sativum are not. If the recipe really dates back to the Aztecs (which is unsourced) then coriander and lime are not the original ingredients. These plant species where introduced to the Americas only a few centuries ago. Bijdenhandje (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:32, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Pronunciation

This article seems to have two Spanish pronunciations, [gwa.kaˈmo.le] in the intro and [wakaˈmole] in the body. Can this be clarified? 81.142.107.230 (talk) 11:46, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Here in Texas, every Tejano, every Mexican, and most of the native Anglo Texans pronounce it Spanish: [wakaˈmole]. Mexican Spanish still retains a lot of Nahuatl sounds that aren't in Castilian Spanish, nor the dictionaries based on the latter. TuckerResearch (talk) 19:05, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Part of American cuisine, and?

I think the article should not say this dish is part of American cuisine now. This dish is very common and part of the diet of a lot of countries in Central America, Caribbean and South America and I believe most of the world now.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.176.161.197 (talk) 20:44, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

How to manual?

The preparation section is basically a how to guide. Do we need attention? EMachine03 (talk) 22:13, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Salt

I do not believe that salt is required for an ingredient. I'd like to see evidence stating that salt is always to be used in guacamole. From my experience, I'd argue that guacamole only needs avocados and everything else is optional. Added CN to portion about salt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.200.211.242 (talk) 06:39, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, the same for Yogurt I do not believe in that. But at the end of the day it's not about believes here, it's about the references.

But I think removing salt is not a good idea because basically "salt" CAN be used with any vegetables as a seasoning. The lime juice for e.g. is used (at least in some kitchen) to avoid the avocado to become brown, but in fact that's also optional. I would leave spices and seasoning as it is. --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 01:03, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

There's a statement about "sea salt" being a traditional ingredient, which isn't even supported by the (unauthoritative) references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.54.50.130 (talk) 00:17, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

"in American English, it is pronounced /ɡwɑːkəˈmoʊliː/, and in British English, /ˌɡwɑːkəˈmoʊleɪ/"

As is usually the case, it's not that cut and dried. Many Americans (myself included) pronounce it /ˌɡwɑːkəˈmoʊle/. Kostaki mou (talk) 18:13, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Etymology

None of the given sources in the etymology section claim that Guacamole is an Aztec dish. They only claim that the word Guacamole is the Spanish variant of the Aztecs words for Avocado and sauce. They are all food blogs by the way. The book (ISBN 0292711557) I have cited is written by Sophie_Coe (not a blogger). She describes an actual Aztec dish named Ahuaca-mulli. This pre-Colombian era dish has three different ingredients: tomato, avocado and new world onions (chives?). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bijdenhandje (talk • contribs) 16:01, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

The word "avocado" comes from the Spanish aguacate, does that make it a Spanish fruit? No. Bijdenhandje (talk) 16:23, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

the Spanish "aguacate" is a derivative of the Nahuatl word for āhuacatl --47.157.27.56 (talk) 23:23, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

With all respect: Are you silly?

Wwho cares about September 16, November 14, The Hass Avocado Board, thats what we all wanna know about Avocados: The national commercial day. (ncluding a well unknown adverb recipe site).--92.224.130.216 (talk) 01:09, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I will remove this section, cause this cultivar does not seem to be relevant. You can make guacamole with any cultivar. Besides, nobody objected to the IP for almost ten years. Bijdenhandje (talk) 17:52, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

This article states that "National Guacamole Day" is Sept. 16, but fails to identify the nation in which it is so designated. Since the article can be accessed internationally, it should instead read something similar to, "In the U.S.A., 'National Guacamole Day' is Sept. 16". This, of course, is assuming that the United States is the nation in question. Kinkleba (talk) 17:58, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Citations for the Mexican Spanish pronunciation: wakaˈmole

I added two more sources for the Mexican Spanish pronunciation of guacamole: [wakaˈmole]:

• Claudia R. Guerra, ed. (2018). 300 Years of San Antonio and Bexar County. San Antonio, TX: Trinity University Press. p. 55. ISBN 9781595348500.
• Maria de Lourdes Santiago Martínez; Juan López Chávez (2004). Etimologías: introducción a la historia del léxico español. Pearson Educación. p. 241. ISBN 9789702604938.

Mexican Spanish has many pronunciations and words adopted directly from the Nahuatl. I have often heard it pronounced that way in English, in Texas. I'm sure more citations could be found. TuckerResearch (talk) 19:06, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

@Tuckerresearch: I have recently become interested in this particular "silent g" pronunciation. Many people online have attested to its use in Mexico (and, of course, the Southwestern United States); however, I have been looking for reliable sources to attest the pronunciation and have been led to you. That first source from Guerra is pretty good, though I do wonder how linguistically precise it is. While that second source does seem to attest the etymology of guacamole, I don't think that it actually lists its modern day Spanish pronunciation; rather, it seems to only list the pronunciation of the Nahuatl ahuacamolli, which of course does not say very much about whether the g is pronounced in Spanish today. So it would seem there is only one source to support this alternate pronunciation.  Mysterymanblue  01:07, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@Mysterymanblue: I bet I could find many more refences if I tried. I might do that later. The first is a fine source: a good local history by a university press with a Tejano P.O.V. The second is a good source too. The title of the very page is "Lexical Indo-Americanisms in Spanish" or, a better freer translation: "American-Indian words in Spanish." The first pronunciation is the Spanish, the next show the etymology. At least that's how I take it. Either way, it is the American-Indian word IN Spanish. With the waka pronunciation. I hope you find some more refs. TuckerResearch (talk) 14:59, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@Tuckerresearch: Thanks, I will continue to look for sources on this topic. However, in the Pearson book on Spanish etymologies, the “wakamole” pronunciation is not attested. The full phonetic spelling is “<a:wakamo:l-li”; the ‘a’ indicates an “awakamole” pronunciation. Since this pronunciation, as far as I know, is not used in Spanish, it must be the pronunciation of the Nahuatl word, not the Spanish one.  Mysterymanblue  15:56, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@Mysterymanblue: Aha! You are correct! Good catch. The search continues! TuckerResearch (talk) 18:33, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

As of now:

• A book: https://books.google.com/books?id=3Yu3AwAAQBAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&lpg=PA147&dq=pronunciation%20guacamole&pg=PA147#v=onepage&q=pronunciation%20guacamole&f=false
• And an article: https://www.thoughtco.com/is-the-g-in-guacamole-silent-3079533

I'll have to do some more digging.... TuckerResearch (talk) 18:50, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Here is another one: https://books.google.com/books?id=e34SAAAAIAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=wakamole&pg=PA137#v=onepage&q=wakamole&f=false Best, TuckerResearch (talk) 13:58, 8 September 2021 (UTC)