Talk:Gustav, Prince of Vasa

Requested move

Gustav, prince of Vasa → Gustav, Prince of Vasa – 'Prince' should be capitalised, shouldn't it? I'm not exactly sure whether this should go at Gustav, Prince of Vasa, Gustaf, Prince of Vasa, Prince Gustav of Vasa, Prince Gustaf of Vasa, Gustaf Gustafsson of Vasa, Crown Prince Gustav of Sweden, or Crown Prince Gustaf of Sweden. Feel free to add suggestions. Morhange 02:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

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• Support the move to "Prince" with capital p. Oppose other alternatives at this stage. Henq 11:44, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

shrugs Fair enough. —Nightstallion (?) 10:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose. I believe that this case falls under already established Naming Conventions for deposed heirs/pretenders, specifically Monarchical titles rule #6: "...A person may however be referred to if they have a title, for example, Victor Emmanuel, Prince of Naples for the last Italian Crown Prince. But he should not be referred to as Victor Emmanuel IV even though Italian royalists call him so." and under Other royals rule #5: "When dealing with a Crown Prince/ss of a state, use the form "{name}, Crown Prince/ss of {state}" unless there is a clear formal title awarded to a prince which defines their status as crown prince (eg, 'Frederik, Crown Prince of Denmark', 'Charles, Prince of Wales', 'Felipe, Prince of Asturias', etc)". The title "Prince of Vasa" was a title of pretence used only after he was exiled, whereas the highest title to which he is entitled under Wiki rules is "Gustav, Crown Prince of Sweden". Since no other "Gustav" has a stronger claim to that title under Wiki rules, that is where he should be, and others of the same name should be redirected. Lethiere 19:24, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

This should certainly not be at Gustaf Gustafsson of Vasa, you know, there is the convention that substantive title is used. Henq 09:07, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

If someone wants to have the name form ending with -f (Gustaf) into use, please go first to change an overall policy. For a reason or another, Gustav with -v has been deemed as the Engliosh-language version, and Gustaf deemed worse. There was a lengthy battle or several about that v or f under Gustav II Adolf. Dozens of editors participated. The ending -v is now used of all other royal Swedish Gussies. This is not the place to change that. Henq 09:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

You can't really take Gustav II Adolf as a precedent, as he was king. Deceased kings are always spelled Gustav even in Swedish, so there's no reason to have Gustaf II Adolf. More reason here, as this fellow is never spelled Gustav in Swedish. If he should be in English, then why? (See also my comment at Talk:Prince Gustav Adolf, Duke of Västerbotten.) -- Jao 12:45, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

My reply there. I request you to follow English usages and to use English, not Swedish, when contributing to English Wikipedia. Besides, this guy was notable in Austria, when German was prevalently used where he lived. His substantive title came from Austrian Emperor. Guess how German language happens to write his first name. Henq 11:39, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not saying you're wrong (not here, not at Talk:Prince Gustav Adolf, Duke of Västerbotten, not at Talk:Charles Philip, Duke of Södermanland), I'm just wanting sources. What is your source to Gustav being the form predominantly used in English for Swedish royalty (monarchs or not) named Gustaf/Gustaff/Gustav? Just tell me that, and I will be satisfied. -- Jao 12:24, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I am quite disappointed that Morhange has an idea to put this to Crown Prince Gustav of Sweden, because that is a name which has referred to several other individuals too. It hopefully is not the intention to cause any more ambiguate naming??? Henq 09:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I only suggested that it be put there because the page did not exist until today, incidentally. Morhange 15:27, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Anyone who knows enough about how common the first name Gustav is to Swedish royals (practically a prerequisite to contribute anything worthwhile to these subjects), would have known that. I despise an attitude "we can put it to that ambiguate location because there is no page yet". Henq 11:39, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

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