Talk:Gwent (county)

Monmouthshire 'considered' part of England

According to the article Laws in Wales Acts, M was formally redesignated in 1535 from 'no man's land' warlord country to being formally part of the principality. So who 'considered' it to be part of England and on what basis?88.97.11.54 (talk) 23:44, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

The County of Monmouth is treated somewhat differently in 1535 c.26 to the other new counties. For instance in section 4 it is stated: "the King's Justices of his Bench, or of his common Bench of Westminster, shall have full Power and Authority to direct all manner Process to the Sheriff and all other Officers of the said County of Monmouth". Whereas in section 10: "And that Justice shall be ministered, used, exercised and executed unto the King's Subjects and Inhabitants in every of the said Shires of Brecknock, Radnor, Mountgomery and Denbigh, according to the Laws and Statutes of this Realm of England, and according to such other Customs and Laws now used in Wales aforesaid, as the King our Sovereign Lord and his most honourable Council shall allow and think expedient, requisite and necessary, by such Justicer or Justicers as shall be thereunto appointed by our said Sovereign Lord the King, and after such Form and Fashion as Justice is used and ministered to the King's Subjects within the three Shires of North Wales"; Thereby making Monmouthshire the same as counties already existing in England, and the others the same as counties already existing in North Wales.

Section 2 of 1542 c.26, is even clearer: "First, That his Grace's said Dominion, Principality, and Country of Wales, be from henceforth divided into twelve Shire; (2) of the which eight have been Shires of long and ancient Time, That is to say, The Shires of Glamorgan, Caermarthen, Pembroke, Cardigan, Flint, Caernarvan, Anglesey and Merioneth; (3) and four of the said twelve Shires be newly made and ordained to be Shires, by an Act made at the Parliament holden at Westminster in the twenty-seventh Year of our said Sovereign Lord's most noble Reign, that is to say, The Shires of Radnor, Brecknock, Montgomery and Denbigh". Owain (talk) 11:36, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Ne I have modified the text of the article which previously claimed the simply incorrect statement that Newport and Monmouthshire were 'legally part of England' prior to the 1970s - a statement not backed up by the source cited. Whilst it was the local government act that clearly and unequivocally answered the question, the very fact the answer was needed is testament to the fact that the situation was not clear cut. 'Legally part of England' would have had little practical meaning outside things like the sunday closing act, which included monmouthshire long before the 1970s. Figaro-ahp (talk) 11:44, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

My thought is that this isn't all that relevant to Gwent anyway. The Interpretation Act 1978 said that references to "Wales" meant the 8 new counties from 1 April 1972, which is before the Local Government Act 1972 passed. It doesn't affect earlier legislation which doesn't make its scope clear, but I don't know if there is any.

I've added a link to Wales and Monmouthshire (which has more information on the subject) to the "See also" section and removed an unsourced claim from this article which didn't align well with it. Aoeuidhtns (talk) 17:16, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

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