Talk:HANS device

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dalejay06.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:54, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Olivier Panis

I just removed the following text, added by an anon:

It was considered by some that Olivier Panis' crash in the 1997 Canadian Grand Prix would have been fatal had he been wearing the HANS device. This was mainly because some engineers in Formula 1 felt the HANS device did not suit the different stlye of car design and crash that occurs in european racing.

I think this could be a very positive addition to the article, but it really needs citing. I'd love to see some references for it, if anyone can find some. violet/riga (t) 21:03, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I really doubt that's true. Panis's accident was confined to a double impact to the side of the car at the pedal box position. Maybe the anon author meant Dinz's crash in the 1999 European GP - where the roll-hoop broke?--Don Speekingleesh 12:33, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

This all seems mute. Formula 1 mandated HANS devices a long time ago. Somethign they woud not have done if they had any concerns about its performance. The FIA have now mandated it in GPS, WRC FIA GT and a whole bunch of other series. Sounds like soemone has sour grapes to me.

A picture?

Does anyone have a picture of this device? It's rather difficult to visualise it from the description. --rossb 19:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Not one that we could use here, unfortunately. violet/riga (t) 19:17, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

How about Image:Andy_Priaulx_2007_Curitiba_qualify.jpg? Marc Kupper (talk) (contribs) 16:12, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I just ordered a new HANS today, when it arrives I can take some pictures to upload to commons. I also would like to document some details about helmet post installation, as I've seen some issues with this in SCCA tech recently. Nfgusedautoparts (talk) 00:26, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

A broader entry...

The subject may be better served by beginning with an entry for Head and Neck Systems/Restraints, rather than just one brand. The original head and neck restraint was invented in 1979 by George White, and there are many other products available to racers today.

Gregg Baker, P.E., Isaac, LLC, Isaac

Hi Gregg - I've seen your well-informed posts on many other forums, and I'd like to welcome you to Wikipedia. May I suggest you open an account and edit under that account? It will make life easier, trust me :) I certainly think a broader article on head and neck restraints is warranted - Perhaps at "Racing head restraints"? Then HANS device and Isaac (safety device) would be linked from there, along with a Category: Head and neck restraints. FCYTravis 03:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Travis,

Thanks for the kind words. I've never contributed to Wikipedia before now, so I'll have to check out the account thing.

I believe your ideas are good. Also, headrestraint.org should be included in any links.

This suggestion makes a lot of sense. The article as constructed gives a muddled picture of the current state of affairs. While HANS is the original device, there are a variety of alternatives and sanctioning bodies generally specify a FIA or SFI certification standard rather than a specific device. When I work SCCA tech, i am looking for the correct FIA or SFI labeling, and not for a brand. Nfgusedautoparts (talk) 23:50, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

The more I think about this, the more I feel there should be a wikipedia page on Head and Neck Restraint systems, rather than this one named HANS, because HANS is a brand. This page could be retained because HANS is the most notable and important of the brands. Nfgusedautoparts (talk) 00:24, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Governor Easley

The Mike Easley story links to a page with a picture of Easley and the damaged car, I would like to see that picture up here, but I don't know how to do it. I think it would be good to show how safe the "HANS device" really is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.215.85 (talk) 02:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Massa

This article mentions Massa survived Basilar Fracture because of HANS; where was this sourced as there's nothing about fracture on Massa's page. Donmika (talk) 14:25, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you. It has been widely reported that Massa suffered a fractured skull but nowhere (at least according to my recollection) has stated that it was specifically a basilar fracture. Indeed, from my understanding it would seem unlikely - being hit by debris from the front is not going to throw the head forward. In the absence of a reliable source I am snipping that statement. CrispMuncher (talk) 19:41, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Notable race car drivers who died from Basilar skull fractures

This part should include Ayrton Senna — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.106.97.252 (talk) 17:59, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Ayrton Senna died from a number of causes. Skull fractures we one of them. In addition to the skull fractures, a piece of his suspension penetrated his helmet, and part of his upright assembly penetrated his helmet (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ayrton_Senna#Crash paragraph two). I'm not sure what his official cause of death was, but all of those factors probably would have been fatal by themselves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.106.97.124 (talk) 17:12, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

The cause of death, which was reported by the relevant pathologists to the court in the inquest, was extensive fracturing to the base of the skull - a basilar skull fracture. It should be pointed out though that the cause of this injury was atypical in terms of a HANS device, i.e.; it was not a deceleration injury but caused by leverage against his helmet while the back part of it was wedged hard against the headrest. This information can be found on the Ayrton Senna page. Flanker235 (talk) 10:05, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Formula One — When?

No specific dates, but it appears sometime between 1995 and 2000 Daimler Chrysler tested HANS on behalf of the FIA.

References

Ayrton Senna

The cause of death for Ayrton Senna is hotly disputed. There are those who support the (official FIA) notion that he was still alive and required hospitalisation even though there was no prospect of his recovering. There are other independent experts who say that the crush injuries to the base of the skull, consistent with a basilar skull fracture, meant that he died in the car. This is not a case of believing what you like. But the comment that

"It should also be noted that whilst Senna sustained a basilar skull fracture, the official cause of death was brain penetration by shrapnel."

is unreferenced and needs to be referenced or removed. There were three potentially fatal head injuries; shrapnel penetration, blunt force trauma, resulting in cerebral edema and a basilar skull fracture. The official report by the Italian authorities make it plain; Senna died of massive injuries to the base of the skull - a basilar skull fracture. This is what was submitted to the inquest into his death. Flanker235 (talk) 13:03, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I note that this request for a citation (on the article page) has been reverted on the basis that someone felt the article was better without the need for it. The article needs verification in line with Wiki's policy on such matters. I fail to see how an article is better without citations. Further to this, the Wiki page on the Death of Ayrton Senna makes some fairly clear points on this, notably that Senna died as a result of extensive fracturing to the base of the cranium. I am not going to go into the details here because they are outside the scope of this discussion but the matter is, at the very least, one of considerable dispute. Anyone who seeks clarification should refer to that page. I respectfully request that anyone who wants to revert this again should at least discuss the matter publicly out of politeness. Thank you. Flanker235 (talk) 03:30, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

FIA & SFI Standards

There should be some discussion of the standards specified by the SFI (38.1) and FIA (FIA 8858-2010) as sanctioning bodies now tend to specify devices meeting these standards, rather than list acceptable brands and models. Nfgusedautoparts (talk) 22:50, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

The actual FIA 8858-2010 standard is here https://www.fia.com/fia-standard-8858-2010-frontal-head-restraint-fhr-system-updated-05122012 Nfgusedautoparts (talk) 16:09, 28 November 2018 (UTC)