Talk:HMS Phoenix (N96)

Some missing detail

A few things which seem to be missing in this article - finding them out and adding them my help to address the coverage concerns noted above:

• Any casualties when she was sunk? Were there survivors? If so who rescued them/what happened to them afterwards?
• 'Phoenix made a contact report on 8 July after sighting the Italian battle fleet, which led to the Battle of Calabria' - any more context on this? What was the Italian battlefleet doing at sea? What was the British response which led to the battle?
• 'Submarines of the Parthian class were designed for a complement of 53 officers and men. Phoenix had a crew of 56' - any reason for the discrepancy? Was Phoenix carrying more men than usual for some reason, or was the designed complement routinely exceeded on ships of this class, and if so why?
• 'The class had a design flaw in that riveted external fuel tanks leaked, leaving an oil trail on the surface.' - this statement reads as if they leaked constantly, which I don't think can be right. Perhaps they had a tendency to leak, or something similar?
• Any context on how she came across the two Italian battleships?

Benea (talk) 14:58, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I'll start trying to address some of those questions when I get a chance, but I have one question. When a submarine is sunk, isn't everyone a casualty? From the extent of my knowledge a submarine that has been hit will usually collapse due to water pressure crushing everyone inside. Ryan Vesey Review me! 15:49, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh no, definitely not. A lot depends on the circumstances of the sinking. It was quite common for submarines to be lost with all hands, but there are numerous instances of survivors, sometimes entire crews escaping. These submarines did not operate particularly deeply, and sometimes attacks would force submarines to the surface, giving their crews more time to escape before they sank. It's quite hard to find an actual statement, but this source says she was lost with all hands. Also interestingly that the submarine was officially posted as overdue on 21 July, after failing to respond to signals. This would definitely be worth including. There are rolls of honour here and here, but the two don't add up, with 55 and 56 names respectively. Some names on the rolls are different as well to add to the mystery. rnsubs for instance omits Eric Barnes, the subject of the first link, while naval-history.net includes him. As to her pre-war career, there's a mention of her being toured by American sailors while in port in China. You might want to get your hands on Joel Blamey's A Submariner's Story: The Memoirs of A Submarine Engineer in Peace and in War, which includes details of service with the submarines on the China Station in the pre-war era. Benea (talk) 01:55, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

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