Talk:Habsburg Netherlands

Proposed merge with Seventeen Provinces

These articles discuss the same topic: the provinces of the low countries, as united under Habsburg rule. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 12:06, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

First a question: was the term seventeen provinces ever used before Charles V, for the Burgundians? Our articles imply not, but maybe we should double check, because if so then maybe the merge should go the other way.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 15:27, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I strongly doubt that, because Frisia and Utrecht were never in Burgundian hands, but were conquered by Charles V. Groningen, Drenthe and Overijssel did not exist as separate provinces, but were subject to the Bishop of Utrecht as the Oversticht. I.e. there weren't even that many provinces until Emperor Charles started creating new ones (see the map to the right for the maximum entent of Burgundian rule before the Habsburgs). QVVERTYVS (hm?) 22:41, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Probably a good idea. Support. Johnbod (talk) 13:36, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Groningen wasn't part of the Oversticht. Only the city was up to a certain point in time. The term "Seventeen Provinces" is a historiographical invention from a much later date. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 14:42, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

If we have to name a year of establishment it would be better to use 1549. See Pragmatic Sanction of 1549, when Charles V organized his Dutch provinces into an entity. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 14:46, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

I read on wikipedia and elsewhere that the name "Seventeen provinces" has been a used since mid 16th century, in other words used in the same period it refers too. Why do you think it is a historiographical invention? So I have doubts about the validity of this argument.--Watisfictie (talk) 10:47, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

So no one objects to a merge?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 08:01, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't think so. Let's merge into Habsburg Netherlands — we can always revert later. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 08:41, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Fine with me! Gerard von Hebel (talk) 10:22, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Shouldn't Spanish and Austrian Netherlands be merged with this as well? They were Habsburg Netherlands as well until 1793. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 15:14, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

map

I like the map, but I don't understand the orange blob to the east of Drenthe and Twenthe in what is now (and arguably then as well) Germany. What is it? Gerard von Hebel (talk) 15:17, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

It seems to be Cloppenburg. I don't know why it is coloured orange on the map. I read that it has been under control of the bisshop of Munster for a long time. Better replace it with a different map.--Watisfictie (talk) 16:41, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

It happens to be Lingen, not Cloppenburg, map seems to be right.--Watisfictie (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Lingen wasn't shaped that way, and I doubt if it was part of the Burgundian Circle. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 13:29, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

This map shows it is Lingen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tachtigjarigeoorlog-1576-1577.png --Watisfictie (talk) 14:34, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

The Lingen I know is shaped more like on this map. I know it has been part of Charles V's and Philip II's possessions at times, however it has always been a part of the Westphalian circle and not of the Burgundian circle (aka Habsburg Netherlands). So I gather it was a separate entity from it. Also because the Habsburg Netherlands / Burgundian circle was basically created by the Pragmatic Sanction of 1549 of which Lingen could not have been a part. Charles V gave it to others at times, which was against the very purpose of that Pragmatic sanction. I think it should be treated as an entity not involved in the 17 Netherlands as such. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 15:34, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

It looks like the northern half of Lingen corresponds with the Lingen on the Habsburg Netherlands map. It is mentioned as one of the Seventeen Provinces on the wiki entry of the same name, but no source is mentioned. --Watisfictie (talk) 16:02, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Lingen was never a part of the 17 Netherlands, as it was no part of the Pragmatic sanction 0f 1549. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 17:01, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Structure

The Habsburg Netherlands (1482-1794) pre-existed the Seventeen Provinces (roughly 1549-1581), the Spanish Netherlands (roughly 1581-1700) and the Austrian Netherlands (roughly 1714-1794), each of which was a later, and in various ways distinct, incarnation of Habsburg rule. The article should reflect this, covering Habsburg rule in the Low Countries across the early-modern period, and referring to the main articles for each of the major, distinct periods within that in the usual way. --Andreas Philopater (talk) 23:39, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

ISO 3166 code in infobox

How does a country disestablished in 1794 have an ISO 3166 code? Given that ISO was established in 1947 this seems quite ridiculous. Editing with Eric (talk) 13:23, 13 March 2020 (UTC)