Talk:Haik (garment)

References

References from Requested Articles page: [1]; [2]; [3]— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mabalu (talk • contribs) 17:39, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

women's garment?

The wiktionary definition does not specify gender. Since my reference is to a soldier's clothing in the emirate of AbdelKader, going with the wiktionary link for now, but someone who knows more than I do about Algeria should resolve the discrepancy. Elinruby (talk) 06:58, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2023

Please change "traditional women's garment worn in the Maghreb region" to "traditional Moroccan women's garment worn in the Maghreb region", proof and historical evidence by ISmail Ibn Al Ahmar Andalusian historian stating in his Book "The greatest Houses of Fez" page 24 that the haik was being made and sold in Fez, Morocco in the 14th century.

You can read the book for free here in Arabic, by clicking the read button or download it by clicking the download button. https://www.noor-book.com/en/ebook-%D8%A8%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B3-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%8A--pdf

Many thanks

Many thanks Batatafrite (talk) 16:51, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: Enough of your nationalist nonsense. M.Bitton (talk) 17:12, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I think that the point raised by @Batatafrite is noteworthy and should be included in the article. Ismail al-Ahmar, who lived during the Marinid era, has mentioned a family in Fez that produced "Hiak حياك" (the plural form of "Haïk") on page 24 of his book "Buyotat Fes al-Kubra" or "Great Houses of Fez" (it's in Arabic). Although I could not find a preview of the book, I believe that the link provided by @Batatafrite could be useful. Thanks. Simoooix.haddi (talk) 18:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

That's WP:OR based on an ancient source. Assuming that's what the source says, we have no way of knowing what he meant by it, as some "woollen hayiks" (nothing to do with the haik of the article) were worn by men, as mentioned in the encyclopedia of Islam). M.Bitton (talk) 18:17, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

you can read the whole book by clicking on the read button.

Many thanks for your support. 178.85.123.172 (talk) 18:29, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Are you considering history books to be Nationalist non-sens and a broken link link (source Nr5) to be reliable source??? 178.85.123.172 (talk) 18:31, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

In the book at page 24 you can clearly read it in Arabic, You can always require help from an Arabic speaking/reading colleague in case you can't read Arabic. When it comes to Ibn Al Ahmar he was an Andlusian Historian. You should consider his work as part of your article.

Adding to this that some refrences in the article are broken, like reference number 5. You should remove it.

I don't need to ask anyone, that's the whole point on relying on secondary sources. By itself, the word haik in Arabic is meaningless (as explained above). M.Bitton (talk) 18:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

of course it would be meaningless for someone that doesn't speak Arabic, find a colleague who speaks Arabic please. Batatafrite (talk) 18:48, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Actually, it's meaningless to those who do (the ones who know the origin of the word), so I suggest you follow your own advice. M.Bitton (talk) 18:53, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Haik is a Moroccan dialect term, there is no dictionary for dialects. Batatafrite (talk) 19:02, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

This is so boring. M.Bitton (talk) 19:04, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Not to me, It is actually in my favor that you qualify historical references as "boring nationalist non-sens" makes me wonder what you accept as sources cannot be reliable.

I will keep requesting that change until there is a replacement for you that accept historical evidence as a fact. 178.85.123.172 (talk) 19:12, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2023 (2)

Source number 5 is dead. What do you do about sources that disappeared ? Batatafrite (talk) 17:59, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done I added the archived url. M.Bitton (talk) 18:28, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

References

Abuse of process

@ScottishFinnishRadish: please have a look at this case. We have two editors: 1) "Batatafrite" who has done nothing but push a nationalist POV since joining the project today (they even misrepresented a source in the process). 2) "Simoooix.haddi" who has been harassing me (following me to revert my edits, including today's abuse of process with multiple edit requests) and telling to "fuck off" in their edit summaries (twice[4][5] so far). Also worth noting is the fact that they personally attacked me on their third (theoretical) edit (even though, technically, I had never interacted with them before). M.Bitton (talk) 19:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

What a liar! when exactly did i say "fuck off"? and let's not forget about your baseless accusation to me of disruptive edits and nationalist editing. also what harassment are you talking about? are you being serious right there? i think it's clear, it happens that we both are interested in some same articles (usually concern north africa's history, politics and culture), actually almost all the articles i edit on are in my watchlist. in fact it is probably you who were following every edit of mine and revert it. Simoooix.haddi (talk) 20:00, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

about this you can see that i have reverted my edit after that and recognized my mistake in the comment (i thought you deleted the discussion i was participating in). Simoooix.haddi (talk) 20:07, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm a bit short on time at the moment, but I'll try and look into this in a few hours. If it escalates, you may have to visit ANI. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:08, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@M.Bitton talking about personal attacks let's not forget about this one. Simoooix.haddi (talk) 20:29, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Simoooix.haddi: I have zero interest in what you have to say, especially now that an admin is looking into it. Don't ping me again! M.Bitton (talk) 20:34, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: please let me know if you want me to elaborate on anything that isn't clear enough (I can provide all the necessary diffs). M.Bitton (talk) 20:34, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

This is going to be a whole thing. I need to try and dig some stuff up in my contribs, because I'm pretty sure I've seen Batatafrite before under other user names. Hopefully I can pull together the time. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:37, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm sure that they are not the only returning editor. BTW, they are now pushing their POV in a related article.

Thanks again for taking the time to look into this (I know how busy you are and how time and energy consuming these things can be). M.Bitton (talk) 20:43, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@M.Bitton i hope by this "they" you don't refer to me as well. Simoooix.haddi (talk) 20:57, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish you can do your investigations but please don't fall for the manipulations. Simoooix.haddi (talk) 21:12, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Algerian cloth

The haik is Algerian cloth in French , Italian , Spanish say that and sourced that why English don’t have it WillToons (talk) 04:16, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

See my comment below. Per Wikipedia's own policies, Wikipedia is not a reliable source, so what other Wikipedia articles say is irrelevant; and even those articles explicitly mention other countries. R Prazeres (talk) 04:24, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Nationality, again

WillToons, as you can see if you look at this talk page and at the article's history, you're not the only one to push a pointless national attribution here without proper evidence. If you want this change to be accepted, you'll have to demonstrate that it represents the consensus among reliable sources and that it respects Wikipedia's policy on neutral point of view. Arbitrarily changing the content and replacing a reliable source with an article on the internet that doesn't even state your claim, as you did here, is transparently not constructive. R Prazeres (talk) 04:21, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

WillToons, I'll ask you again here, please keep your comments about an article on the talk page of the article, which is here. Disputed edits must be discussed and approved by consensus (see WP:BRD and Wikipedia:Consensus for what this means). You can't solicit consensus by making personal comments on my user talk page, which no one else will look at. R Prazeres (talk) 04:38, 11 July 2023 (UTC)